Talk:Stoka

title

Both references we have refer to him using both his proper name and the nickname, so I don't think the standalone nickname reflects reality. Yes, everyone knows him as Stoka, but they also know him as Marin Ivanović. Compare also Zlatan Stipišić Gibonni. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 13:11, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Per convention recording artists are commonly referred to by their stage names. Compare Madonna, 50 Cent, Shorty, Edo Maajka, General Woo, Koolade and about a zillion other examples. Severina Vučković is almost always referred to by just about any reliable source you could find as Severina (just like the article on Shakira uses the shorter title instead of Shakira Mebarak), and so are Gibonni and Minea, to name a few. Yes, the references cited in this article use both his full name and stage name, but he is more often referred to as just "Stoka" (oddly enough, the 24sata article also mentions "Nered" twice, never mentioning that his real name is Marko Lasić). Besides, WP:NCP says that "the name used most often to refer to a person in reliable sources is generally the one that should be used as the article title" and the article itself says that the man is "better known by his pseudonym Stoka". If he is better known as Stoka, why the article move? Timbouctou 13:40, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

So you're using phrasing inside the same Wikipedia article as a reference? :D --Joy [shallot] (talk) 23:28, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

I did not use it as reference but I do believe it reflects reality, just like you don't. I can only conclude that you have agreed that this falls into the scope covered by WP:NCP by saying that "Yes, everyone knows him as Stoka, but they also know him as Marin Ivanović" and I trust that you will continue to follow Wikipedia guidelines as diligently and meticulously as usual.Timbouctou 00:10, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm saying there's practically nothing to convince us that the standalone nickname is indeed the name most often used to refer to the person. Madonna is called just Madonna because references to here practically never use her full name, whereas references to Stoka by and large do. If you want this section of WP:NCP to apply, you have to back it up. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 09:29, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Practically nothing eh? This article in Jutarnji mentions a certain "Stoka" without referring to him by his full name. This article in Jutarnji about his addiction even has "Stoka" in title, and refers to him as such 10 times, while mentioning his real name only once in the introduction. This 2003 article in Vjesnik reports about some kind of beauty pageant where "estradnjaci Nered i Stoka" performed. This article in Večernji is titled "Stoka ponovno otišao u komunu" and this one is titled "Stoka za Uskrs izlazi iz komune". Sure, the articles sometimes put his full name in the introductory paragraph to explain who they are referring o as the hip hop scene is not exactly mainstream in Croatia and it is reasonable to assume that not everyone knows who Stoka is (unlike Severina or Gibonni or Edo Maajka whose real names occur much less frequently in the media and one could find a crapload of articles about them without ever finding out their real names), but the fact that relatively reliable newspapers choose to put "Stoka" in titles of articles about him must mean something.

Again, I agree it means something - but I personally wouldn't say it means more than the fact that his stage name is well known. I wouldn't go so far to say it's his primary name, as you would. Let's agree to disagree :) As you can see, I won't move the article again. It's not a topic worthy of a move-war :) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:36, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

The man recorded music with Dino Dvornik, Josipa Lisac, Onyx and a bunch of others, and was always credited as "Stoka". In addition a review of his 2006 solo album never once mentions his real name. And even if one thinks that Gibonni's or Severina's cases are debatable (as the former is sometimes credited as "Zlatan Stipišić" when when working on film music or anything intended for an international release although he is universally known by his stage name Gibonni in Croatia and neighbouring countries, just like Bono; and the latter uses a short version of her real name which became synonymous with the singer, just like Shakira or Camille or Seal) Stoka's case shouldn't be as rappers are never credited by their real names pretty much anywhere. The only reason why one can find his real name printed slightly more often in the media in comparison to most other musicians is that his whole genre is less known to the general public and he hosted some mainstream TV shows which required full name crediting. It's the same reason why you will easily find a myriad of sources talking about "Mirela Priselac Remi" (and she was credited as "Mirela Priselac" when she was a guest in Aleksandar Stanković's Nedjeljom u dva) but not so many "Edin Osmić Edo Maajka" hits (and he was credited as "Edo Maajka" when he came on the same show). Timbouctou 11:32, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, well, but that's also because people choose generic, ambiguous terms for stage names. Those who don't do that also don't have to achieve a universal recognition, before they can expect others to skip having to append their names. Stoka is a peculiar example here because his stage name is a Croatian word so it's not ambiguous in English. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:36, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

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