Talk:Stephen Tompkinson

Not even close to being neutral

This whole article reads like a puff piece, as though it was written by his agent or something. CBA editing the whole thing down so someone else can have that task. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.15.94 (talk) 22:45, 25 August 2012 (UTC) I am more than a little concerned at whoever is trying to undermine the fantastic efforts of one individual to acurately record the life of Stephen Tompkinson.. Anyone who wishes to spend their own time and under their own volition to add to some ones history is commendable in my own opinion. Stephen .....which is incidentally his preferred name, is a delight to work with. He is the ultimate professional and as a producer he is a total professional to deal with. Totally. His Wikipedia site is both comprehensive and educational - exactly what it should be. I wish more wikipedias were like this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.52.56.252 (talk) 22:39, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Response to Above Comment

I am the author of this article. I do not know and have never met Stephen Tompkinson and I am in no way whatsoever affiliated with his agent. I merely admire his work and was disappointed to discover that the earlier Wikipedia article about his career was several years out of date, contained incorrect information, and was woefully inadequate to describe his varied and successful career. I devoted about 100 hours to finding and collecting information from reputable, previously published, verifiable sources. I then attempted to write an up-to-date biography -- in an easily readable style -- wherever possible quoting directly Mr. Tompkinson's own words, and quoting or paraphrasing as closely as reasonably possible the words others have used to describe his life and work or their experience working with him. If one takes the time to read the 175+ rigourously cited references, this will become obvious.

It's regrettable that the article has been flagged because of one reader's obviously biased opinion -- especially an anonymous reader who 'can't be arsed (CBA)' to state any specific objections or make any effort to contribute, and who didn't even sign his/her own comment. I respectfully request that the flag be removed and let the article stand on its own richly cited merits. To the best of my knowledge I have adhered to all stated Wikipedia guidelines in writing the article, and it has been a pleasure to actively contribute. On an additional note, the page view statistics indicate that the page has been visited several thousand times over the past few weeks, particularly on the weekends. This is probably because BBC Radio reprised a couple of Mr. Tompkinson's past radio dramas, and listeners likely came to Wikipedia to learn more about him. None of those people complained. Again, the rigorous attention to reputable source material entirely legitimizes this content.

I would also like to know how the article's "C" rating can be reevaluated. It was given that rating long ago, when it consisted of only a handful of superficially written paragraphs, with only a couple citations. Ellietr (talk) 16:47, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

No - I stand by my assertion.

You make the mistake of thinking I have an axe to grind with this actor - I do not. I merely contend that the article as it stands is far too partisan and full of adjectives such as 'prolific' and 'delightful'. Therefore I reject the accusation of bias and accuse you of the same - biased TOWARDS the actor as a self-confessed 'admirer' of his work. I maintain that the article as written is about as neutral as a bucket of vinegar. ('Stephen' throughout, for instance?) However, the reason that I 'CBA' editing it is simply because if I were to spend several hours of my time going through the whole thing, correcting as necessary, the chances are it is only going to be reverted by a fan, leading to yet another tedious edit war. I've had quite enough of those. So save your disappointment since unless somebody else with more time than I have agrees with me then it's probably going to stay in its present, distinctly partisan state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.15.94 (talk) 21:38, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Response to unsigned 'assertion'

I do not think you have an axe to grind; I apologize if anything I've said gave that impression. But you have questioned and made an incorrect value judgement about my motive. You have a right to your opinion, and I'm also sorry that this bothers you. The article I diligently researched and wrote is not MY opinion in the sense you are trying to assert. As stated in my earlier response, the content is either quoted directly or paraphrased as closely as possible from more than 175 diligently cited, verifiable sources. Many of those sources refer to Mr. Tompkinson as "Stephen," so I followed suit. I was as careful as I could possibly be in conveying the spirit of those cited sources and the persona of the man about whom they were written. Nevertheless, I have edited the article to remove as many "Stephen" usages as reasonably possible, hopefully without sacrificing the clarity of who said what.

I do admittedly admire Mr. Tompkinson's work and I believe -- from all I've read -- that he's a decent human being. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been inspired to undertake the task to begin with. The truth about the man -- what he has said publicly and what has been quoted or written about him -- is what it is, plain and simple; it's not my place to judge it. That said, there are a couple segments in the article where my opinion is expressed, but they are in the descriptions of fictional CHARACTERS he portrayed -- not the man himself. This, I believe, is no different than thousands of other Wikipedia pages where fictional TV or movie characters and plots are described by people who enjoy the characters and the story lines. In my experience people tend to write about what they like and are interested in. I personally have no interest in belittling someone else's contribution, only in contributing to the world's knowledge in a positive way. With best regards... Ellietr (talk) 22:46, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

condescending comments

I've just visited this page to get some info about this actor, for professional reasons not as a fan. While I agree that the article is slightly effusive, it is informative and I got the facts that I was looking for, so I have no complaints about it. I found the comments and 'assertions' on this talk page from 'Unsigned' rather depressing and typical of far too many Wikipedia regulars and editors. It's perfectly possible to make the point that the article's tone isn't quite appropriate, without adopting the style of an irritable and rather condescending schoolteacher. This contributor has done their best to offer a properly-researched article, they haven't written obscenities or vandalised a page. People who voluntarily contribute their own time and effort to add to the information freely available on Wikipedia are entitled to a little respect and friendly advice, not to be slapped down by someone who 'CBA' even to sign their comments.Zephirine (talk) 02:06, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Response to "condescending comments"

Thank you, Zephirine, for taking the time to add your comment. I re-read Wikipedia's "style" guidelines for writing biographies. The guidelines state they should be "newspaper" style, using information from "reliable, third-party, published sources." I find that quite interesting because this article is almost 100% from newspaper articles, as evidenced in the citations. The fact that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia does not mean, in my opinion, that articles must be bone-dry and sleep-inducing. It's possible to write a biography that delivers considerable factual information about a subject, while also conveying something of the subject's personality and lessons learned from career experiences (by using actual quotes). This gives a more rounded, richer, and fuller sense of the subject; makes for easier, more enjoyable reading; and is more educational (isn't that the real goal of an 'encyclopedia'?). Those were my goals in undertaking this effort. Of course, it's important to respect the individual's privacy and avoid stating anything that could be potentially damaging (as the Wikipedia guidelines make quite clear). In this case, my strict adherence to reputable published statements by the subject himself ensured that nothing was included that he had not said himself in interviews, etc. (There's always the possibility an individual's statements in an interview were distorted when published, but I was keenly alert to that possibility and therefore cautious about sources.) Thanks again for your thoughtful feedback.

Removed NPOV flag

Almost 2 months have passed since the NPOV flag was added by the unsigned individual who started this Talk thread. Several thousand people have visited the page since then; no one else has objected and the page ratings remain consistently high. Therefore, I am removing the flag. The Wikipedia guidelines re NPOV state: "Drive-by tagging is strongly discouraged. The editor who adds the tag must address the issues on the talk page, pointing to specific issues that are actionable within the content policies....Simply being of the opinion that a page is not neutral is not sufficient to justify the addition of the tag. Tags should be added as a last resort." Although the user who added the tag did not state specific objections, I (as the author) did what I believed was appropriate to remove phrasing that annoyed the user. This is one of the most rigourously cited articles on Wikipedia. No bias is intended whatsoever. Likewise, people who may, for whatever reason, dislike the subject or his acting style should not be allowed to impose their bias. What the subject has himself said and what has been said or written about him stands on its own merits. Ellietr (talk) 17:03, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Certainly not neutral...

I knew as soon as I started to read the Stephen Tompkinson page what the Talk page would be about, and I was right.

The page is certainly not neutral and from the very first paragraph does not read as such. There are also far too many quotations throughout the page and too much detail on the various TV series.

In my own opinion Stephen Tompkinson is a second rate actor (at best) who has had mild success. He is certainly not the acting phenomenon he is made out to be within the Stephen Tompkinson page.

83.141.106.45 (talk) 09:31, 28 October 2012 (UTC) Damian Scott

Response to 'Certainly not neutral...'

Once again, writing a biography of a living person for Wikipedia is NOT about conveying personal opinions. It's about objectively gathering information from published sources and producing articles that reflect what those sources contain -- which is what I have done. Please read the sources and you will see the foundation on which this article is based. Nowhere in the article is Mr. Tompkinson referred to as an "acting phenomenon." He is simply an actor who has had considerable, year-after-year success on British television, radio, and stage for more than 2 decades. This article attempts to describe what he has done, and what he has said about his career experiences (which puts his success in perspective and may potentially educate and inspire younger actors). The many sources indicate that he is respected in his profession and well-liked by those who have interviewed and/or worked with him. The consistently high ratings for his TV shows year after year confirm this objectively. Individual personal opinions are not relevant. Ellietr (talk) 23:10, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Certainly not neutral... #2

You say "Writing a biography of a living person for Wikipedia is NOT about conveying personal opinions." but yet the page contains many many quotations from people expressing just that. In the introduction, "high-quality dramas of commercial success". Who deemed them high quality? (or commercially successful for that matter? they have all been axed after all) and high-quality compared to what?

Twice on the page you say Mr.Tomkinson received an 'unexpected' phone call or offer. How do you know there were unexpected? or is this just to add to the "sensationalism" throughout the page?

My favourite quote from the page... "It's fair to say that the success [Stephen Tompkinson] has enjoyed in his television career is unrivalled." Is this from an accredited TV critic? or well known acting guild maybe? NO! It's from no less than Kim Francis of The Bracknell Forest Standard. Unrivalled indeed. Actually no Kim, it's not fair to say that. He has not a single BAFTA or National TV Award to his name. He won one award back in 1994 near the start of his career and hasn't won anything since. So I stand over my original complaint. The article is anything but neutral.

Ellie you are obviously a huge Stephen Tomkinson fan. You have hundreds and hundreds of edits on this page and it's pretty much the only topic you edit. The problem is, I can see far far too much of your personal opinion throughout the article. It just needs to be toned back a bit, that's all.

86.43.70.174 (talk) 15:36, 7 November 2012 (UTC) Damian Scott

Second response to Mr. Damian Scott

Mr. Scott, quoting a published source, which contains the personal opinion of a reviewer is entirely legitimate. As author/editor, it was not my role to judge the material I researched and collected -- only to use the cited material as appropriately and accurately as possible. The article has hundreds of edits because my time constraints required me to work on it bit by bit over several months. I also worked very hard to achieve a high degree of accuracy. And Wikipedia authors/editors are not required to justify how many articles they contribute to. It's a volunteer effort; people write about what they know about and what interests them.

I undertook a sincere research effort to learn about an actor and his life. It was gratifying to share what I learned with others. I don't take your criticism personally. I'm satisfied with the fact that almost 40,000 people have looked at this article in the past 90 days. The ratings remain high, and only one complaint. One out of ~40,000 -- not bad. I respect your different opinion, and hopefully we can agree to disagree. One can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but one can't please all of the people all of the time. Cheers! Ellietr (talk) 03:10, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Ridiculous detail

This Wikipedia article is longer than the articles on Nelson Mandela, Muhammad Ali, The Queen and (would you believe this?!) the United States of America!

I don't doubt the research that has gone into this, but it far too detailed. There is no need for more than the title of the project he worked on and maybe his characters name.

If you want to do this much work on him, write a book, don't waste the time of Wiki users by writing a 10,000 word essay! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.46.16 (talk) 01:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Response to 'Ridiculous detail'

I'm sorry you're bothered by the length of the article. A well-known, popular person's life and work is not 'ridiculous'. If you want only the title of the project and the character's name, please use the Table of Contents near the top to click down and see only the 'Filmography', where that type of information can be found. Others who are interested in reading more can do so if they wish. Wikipedia is meant for all types of readers, and its features make it possible for you to get what you want, while others can get what they want. Ellietr (talk) 21:02, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

As an example.

This article is ridiculous in length considering this is an actor. I've taken the liberty of reducing the introductory paragraph to what would seem appropriate for any actor, a summary of what he has done and what he is known for. This is intended s an example for the person that wrote this weighty piece. If he could condense the remainder into a similar form its going to get a LOT more reading and attention vs what I did today when I discovered it...ignore 99%. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimB21 (talk • contribs) 18:17, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I have reverted this as it broke 4 citations in the article. Also per WP:LEAD up to 4 paragraphs is appropriate for the lead of an article to summarise the rest of the article contents. Removing that could also cause the lead to be tagged as too short. Keith D (talk) 20:25, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to Keith D for the reversion. This exceptionally well-researched article, as evidenced by the citations, has received very high ratings since it was written. As the author and self-appointed custodian to keep it updated, I have devoted a huge effort to it, and would be very disappointed to have my sincere hard work undone by one individual whose personal bias considers it too lengthy. Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia of knowledge. TimB21, you are suggesting that a volunteer author be penalised for thorough research, good writing, and diligence in citing suitable sources. Doesn't this send the wrong message to other potential authors? One person's 'opinion' does not justify cutting the article. Also, I originally had a shorter lead-in paragraph but when I discovered that other sites were using the lead-in and it was inadequate, I added one sentence and that has been perfect for the way many other sites are using it. Ellietr (talk) 23:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to KeithD for the reversion and fixing the broken citations. I think its a shame that the original author cannot see that he or she are doing a disservice to the topic by making this article too long. Some personal touches are great but this just goes too far and I believe dissuades readers to find out more about Stephen Tompkinson. I saw Ballykissangel and was curious to find out more, I started on this article and gave up after 2 or 3 pages. While I'm sure he's fascinating to his family and friends he isn't a national figure and this is simply too much data for most people. TiMB (talk) 00:26, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

TimB21, I appreciate your comments but do have to respectfully disagree. Hardly a year has gone by in recent memory that Stephen Tompkinson has not had at least one, and often two, series and/or a documentary on British prime-time television, always garnering high viewer ratings. When he's not filming for TV, he's on stage in London or touring the UK, and filling in the gaps with radio drama. He's an exceptionally hard-working actor, but he keeps a low profile and appears to have little interest in self-promotion, unlike so many other so-called 'celebrities'. If you took the time to read the article and get a better idea of his accomplishments, his character, and the high regard that others have for him, I think that would become clear. Acting is his chosen profession and he takes it very seriously as his life's work. Also, I have received very positive feedback about this article from people to whom I have given the URL. Respectfully, Ellietr (talk) 01:24, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Ellietr, umpteen people have told you that this article is ridiculous. It is bloated, opinionated, full of copyright violations and (despite appearances) full of original research. I'm cutting it down and you are going to have to lump it. - Sitush (talk) 06:29, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Bravo! Thanks Sitush. Much better now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.131.200.64 (talk) 02:26, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Filmography

The filmography is in reverse order compared to most other Wikipedia articles...

This would be far too time consuming to rectify using my mobile device..

Also his most recent part in the sitcom trollied has not yet been added...if someone with a PC can sort this out it would be appreciated

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Regarding name and picture change

Please watch the following video: https://youtube.com/NTLpEH2lLn4 Thanks, Daisy Daisyet17 (talk) 10:19, 7 May 2018 (UTC)Daisyet17

See your own talk page and here. The issues have already been explained to you. - Sitush (talk) 11:20, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Sorry! wrong link, here's the correct one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTLpEH2lLn4&feature=youtu.be thanks :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daisyet17 (talk • contribs) 20:56, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

We can't really use a Youtube video, but if he has an official email address or something, we'd be glad to correct the middle name through that.--Pharos (talk) 19:35, 27 May 2018 (UTC)