Talk:Sonarika Bhadoria

Birth date / year information

I just scrubbed the birth date / year information from this page. The article references DOES give her age, but gives no birth date (day, month year ) information, it just says she's 18, therefore no date can be placed in this article, as it would be considered either OR or SYNTH.  KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh ...  23:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

It's not OR, we have a template specifically for use in such situations which automatically calculates the year range based on an age given at a specific time. It wasn't showing in the infobox for someone reason, but I have restored it.--Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 23:31, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Nope - we have nothing that shows a date,only an article that states she's a certain age. It's OR or Synth to place a date based on that. We need to have a date per BLP. Note that I haven't removed it, as I'm on a voluntary restriction against doing that. I also have no stake in this article as I don't know this actress at all.  KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh ...  01:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

So, the template created to auto-calculate age in this exact situation, which is used on hundreds of articles, is using "original research" to make the calculation? That's really quite a silly supposition. The template clearly states "This template calculates the birth year and current age based on the age as of a date. This is useful when a reference states only their age at the time of the reference's publication." We have a very reliable source stating her age as of a specific date and a template that auto-calculates the age range based on that date. If you have valid concerns that there is a BLP issue with the use of a template that gives an age range based on a reliably sourced age, then I would suggest you bring it at at the BLP noticeboard.--Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 01:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm not explaining myself really clearly. The Times of India is reliable, I have no doubt about that (that and the reliable sources noticeboard declares it as such ). First, her age appears to be controversial (even in the comments in that article, her age is being argued ), second, we have no year , nor date give, just the actress herself saying she's 18.

I realize doing basic math is not considered OR... for example, Kurt Kaiser's age was extrapolated based on a reliably sourced birthday (date , day and month were sourced for this ) here . In this case, a date is being extrapolated based nothing other than her remarks.

Because this is controversial (here as well as on the Times of India itself) I would ask that the date be removed until a reliable source can be found to show her birthdate (at least a year ). (That and you've reverted a few times on this same information, so you're somewhat involved, Jezebel). Again, I won't touch your revert.  KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh ...  13:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

My involvement in this article has solely been to ensure unsourced information is not added to the article. We have a reliable source stating her age at a certain date and use the corresponding template designed for this exact purpose. There is no original research, it's simply typing the numbers into the template and allowing the template syntax to convert that reliable information into a usable format. The vast majority of work I do on this project involves BLPs, whether on this project or via OTRS, and I consider myself to be one of the stricter admins when it comes to enforcing BLP policy. That being said, your contention that using this template constitutes original research does not make sense to me. As I suggested before, if you truly believe there is an issue with the use of this template across hundreds of biography articles then I suggest you raise the issue at the appropriate noticeboard. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 15:48, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I've requested a third opinion as you and I don't agree. I'll respect the response , no matter which side it falls on.  KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh ...  16:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't think that a third opinion is appropriate here. If your concerns are valid that the use of Template:Age as of date constitutes a violation of original research then an RFC should be started at an appropriate venue (likely Template talk:Age as of date), preferably with a note at the BLP noticeboard as the outcome will effect nearly 500 biography articles where the template is used. A third opinion cannot be binding when disputing the use of a template across hundreds of articles. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 16:36, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

• Hello! It would appear that the disagreement here is whether or not it is appropriate to use the {{Birth based on age as of date|18|2012|8|01}} template on this page based on this reference → "Sonarika Bhadoria is just 18". Times of India. August 1, 2012. Retrieved December 20, 2012. which results in 1993 or 1994 (age 29–30) being displayed as a birth year and age? Is this correct? While you answer this, I'm going to see if I can find other sources that may help clarify or eliminate this at the root. I await your responses (please keep them brief, thank you). Technical 13 (talk) 17:04, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

KoshVorlon is arguing that the use of Template:Birth based on age as of date on articles constitutes original research. This is not limited to this single article as the template is used on nearly 500 biography articles. This is why I noted that a 3O is not viable in this case and a full RfC would be needed to determine whether there is consensus that the template constitutes original research. This is simply beyond the scope of the third opinion process as you would need to modify hundreds of transclusions of the template. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 17:36, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Technical, you're correct. This seems to be a contentious claim (both on the referenced website and here). Since we have no birthdate given, only a statement stating "she is 18" (and yes, I know this is from the actress herself ), I'm stating that in order for that date to remain, we would need to have a reliable source showing that date.  KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh ...  18:02, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay, let me ask you this KoshVorlon, if there was a clear and reliable source that said she was ## age on ##-##-#### date, would you be opposed to the use of the {{Birth based on age as of date}} template to calculate a rough estimate of the date of birth and age now? Technical 13 (talk) 18:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Technical, yes, preferably not the source being used, as it's itself, contentious (per the site itself ). (And yes, whatever your decision is, I will respect it and drop any further dispute . )  KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh ...  18:37, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I do agree that the source of the information that she was 18 on August 1, 2012 is not entirely reliable. However, you do seem to be entirely opposed to the use of {{Birth based on age as of date}} template regardless if it was the Stanford University Press saying that she was that age. This being the case, I recommend you go to Template:Birth based on age as of date and nominate it as a Template for Discussion and see what the outcome is there. In the meantime, I believe that the usage of the the template on this page should be discontinued UNLESS a more reliable source can be found than "Sonarika Bhadoria is just 18". Times of India. August 1, 2012. Retrieved December 20, 2012. which has based that comment declaring it was her age on her word which makes it "primary" as opposed to "secondary". I'm not saying that the "Times of India" is not a reliable source, I'm saying that autobiographical comment by the subject is unsatisfactory. If there was an article in a reliable secondary source that said something like, "On such and such date at the age of such and such age, Sonarika Bhadoria portrayed such and such character in such and such film." then that would be a reasonable use of this template in my opinion. I look forward to contributing to the TfD and have actually sent out a couple of emails to the editors of some reliable sources requesting the age or date of birth for this individual. Technical 13 (talk) 18:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

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