Talk:Soliin Danzan

Executed by "Stalinist KGB" in 1924?!

"Danzan was among the leaders executed by Khorloogiin Choibalsan in massacres carried out in collaboration with the Stalinist KGB."

There was no "Stalinism" in 1924, Stalin hadn't become the leading figure until about 1929-1930. And there was no "KGB" either, because that institution was first founded in 1954; the Soviet institution corresponding to the future KGB at the time was the OGPU.--91.148.159.4 (talk) 18:34, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Added some quotations and clarified. Feel free to add more. Jokestress (talk) 19:42, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. OK, it's better now that you've corrected the name of the security service and removed the name of Stalin from our own text. You've also proved with the quotation that the anachronistic use of the term "KGB" is not an editor's mistake but is taken directly from the Sandag book (in conjunction with "Comintern", to boot). However, IMO, this fact does not speak well of the overall standards of the Sandak book; and in addition, we are retaining the inaccurate use of "KGB", this time by means of the quotation. If Sandag must be used as a source at all, perhaps it would be better to at least avoid this specific quotation so as not to embarrass ourselves (even though I was the one who requested it originally). BTW, given that Danzan himself was one of the leaders of the communist party, it's somehow strange of Sandag to say that his execution was a warning against people displeased with "communist presence" (after all, this execution meant one communist less). "Soviet presence", perhaps? --91.148.159.4 (talk) 13:01, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

If you have concerns about the clarity or reliability of a source, I encourage you to add better ones. You are welcome to make any additional clarifications as well. Jokestress (talk) 19:36, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the encouragement. Note, however, that identifying a problem is one thing, fixing it is another. The latter requires much more knowledge and more engagement than the former. But sure, maybe I will try to find something better in the coming months. For the time being, I'll just replace the quotation with a paraphrase to avoid the "KGB & Comintern" terminology - feel free to revert if you fell the article is better with the quotation.--91.148.159.4 (talk) 20:32, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Danzan was tried and executed at the end of the third party congress of the MPRP. I think the facts are well-covered in the relevant literature (like C.R. Bawden and a few others). IIRC Danzan was accused by Rinchino (a [the?] comintern representative in Mongolia at the time, later thrown out of the country /back to the USSR/ and killed in 1937) to be plotting a coup d'etat. Although it certainly was a dark omen (after the execution of Bodoo and Chagdarjav), I don't think his execution qualifies as a massacre.

Ironically, one of Danzan's major achievements, his meeting with Lenin in Moscow, later had to be attributed to Sukhbaatar, who had been in Irkutsk at the time. Also IIRC Danzan had actually been one of the people who were responsible for Bodoo's and Chagdarjav's deaths. I'll add all of this when I have the sources! Yaan (talk) 15:11, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

That would be great (and hopefully no reference to the "KGB" will appear in that source!). It's a very interesting topic, BTW: the most striking thing is that the purges of key party leaders on charges of coup plotting and espionage actually began in Mongolia long before they had even become conceivable in Moscow. In a sense, you could say poor Mongolia was in the "vanguard of socialism" at the time - and not in a good way. --91.148.159.4 (talk) 15:30, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

The source is Bawden's Modern History of Mongolia, but I don't have it with me right now so it might still take one or two days until I'll change the article. I wonder if there is not a specifically Mongolian side to the murders of Danzan, Bodoo etc. After all, the Jebtsundamba Khutughtu also had had the habit of killing political enemies, although I think more commonly with poison than with an execution squad. Yaan (talk) 09:55, 29 July 2010 (UTC)