Talk:Smith–Ninth Streets station

Highest in the system or in the world?

The reference says that the station is the highest in the world. The article says that it isn't. Maybe, it's worth to delete the reference (or add a comment). Vcohen (talk) 18:53, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

This edit summary is not right. King Memorial in Atlanta is 51 feet above the ground while this station is 87.5. Vcohen (talk) 08:06, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Smith–Ninth Streets (IND Culver Line)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Dom497 (talk · contribs) 22:46, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Will begin review soon.--Dom497 (talk) 22:46, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

• "The first short section of the line opened on March 20, 1933" - "short" isn't needed.

 Done

• Why is the word "temporary" in quotations in the next sentence.

 Done

• "...and E trains from the Queens Boulevard line replaced them." --> "...and was replaced by E trains from the Queens Boulevard line."

 Done

• "GG (later renamed the G)" - This renaming should be mentioned at the first mention of the GG train.

 Done

• "...with leaks and broken concrete riddling the viaduct." --> "...with leaks and broken concrete riddling it."

 Done

• "This shorter platform could only accommodate G trains..." - Why?

 Done

 Not done @Kew Gardens 613: The new sentence: "This shorter platform could only accommodate G trains, which are only 300 feet (91 m) long", is still missing info. What is the length of the station?--Dom497 (talk) 17:07, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 Done I thought that I had clarified it enough, but I made it clearer.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 17:27, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@Kew Gardens 613: Sorry if I'm missing something but which reference mentions the station length is 660 feet?--Dom497 (talk) 17:35, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

It would be a nuisance to try to find a source for that. Most IND stations were built to be 660 feet, and 11-car trains did run at one point on some lines. However, there aren't too many definitive source indicating which stations were 660 feet long. To make it easier, I changed it to state that the station could platform 600-foot long trains–the length of F trains.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:16, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@Kew Gardens 613: Hmmm. Given the current reference maybe we should just stick to something like "Due to construction limitations, the platform could only accommodate G trains; F trains bypassed this station on the same track."--Dom497 (talk) 22:48, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@Dom497: That is a great idea.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 23:15, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

• This is me just being picky but from an accessibility standpoint, the gradient on the track layout diagram isn't needed.

@Epicgenius:

• For the station layout diagram, is there a reference for the level names (4F, 3F, 2F, etc).

@Dom497: What do you mean? Are you referring to the use of the labels 4F, 3F, 2F, etc., which are used to distinguish the levels or the features on each level? This information is cited in the following paragraph.

@Kew Gardens 613: Yah thats what I meant but it looks like Epicgenius has taken care of this.--Dom497 (talk) 01:12, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

• "With an elevation of 87.5 feet (26.7 m), this station is the..." --> "With an elevation of 87.5 feet (26.7 m), Smith–Ninth Streets is the..."

 Done

• "and three long escalators and one staircase going up to a landing, where three more long escalators" - Remove the "long" words.

 Done

• The "Exit" subsection can be merged into its parent since it just has one sentence.

 Done

• Regarding the Gallery, I think some of the images could be removed. Images 1 and 2 are pretty similar so one can be removed. Images 6, 7, and 8 are also similar so two can probably be removed. Regarding, the tiling images (3 and 4), I don't see the significance of including them in the article. With the remaining images I would try to merge them into sections of the article but I'm a little bit bias since I generally don't like to use Galleries. However, if you feel the images have signifcance and the gallery should stay, by all means just let me know (Galleries are NOT part of the GA criteria so which ever way this goes it will have no effect on the outcome).

 Done I reduced it to two.

• Just my preference so feel free to disagree...I would move any citations in the middle of sentences to the end. I find it helps with flow. For example, "...or partially closed for a $32 million[18] renovation.[19][20]". I find citation 18 breaks the flow of the sentence.

 Done

• Several refs need access dates (for example, refs 3 and 5)

 Done

 Not done References are still missing access/retrieval dates (for example, ref 3)--Dom497 (talk) 12:06, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 Done–I don't see any other references that need access dates.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 15:05, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

• Some refs should have "subscription required" tags added to them (for example, refs 3 and 5)

 Done

 Not done This is not done. Please use something like the "url-access" parameter for citations.--Dom497 (talk) 12:04, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 Done – by Epicgenius

• Ref 6 doesn't look reliable.

@Dom497: The information is obtained from ERA NY Division Bulletins from October and November 1968. These Bulletins have been deemed as sufficient in previous Good Article Nominations.

@Kew Gardens 613: The source says "Adapted from ERA NY Division Bulletins October and November 1968" but there is no link to it or any proof that it actually is adapted from the bulletins. Given that the website's reliability is already questionable, it is possible that the author just added that line to make it seem credible. Does New York keep a public record of these bulletins somewhere?--Dom497 (talk) 01:03, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@Dom497: I don't think that the website's reliability is in question. The webmaster for the site worked for the TA. Joe Korman would not just add the line to the top. He is trusted. For instance, the subway car assignment information is cited from his website. Joe Korman gets it directly from the TA. While these Bulletins are not online, others are.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 01:19, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@Dom497: In this case, I would say that Joe Korman simply republished an existing issue from the ERA bulletin. NYCsubway.org also does this sometimes. epicgenius (talk) 01:57, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@Epicgenius and Kew Gardens 613: A google search returns no results about Joe Korman. I believe both of you but I'm going to request for a second opinion.--Dom497 (talk) 02:10, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

• I think I've asked this in some of your previous nominations (or I may not have...I forget) but what makes nycsubway.org and Forgotten New York reliable?

 Done I have replaced them.

• Ref 25 is dead

 Done

• What makes ref 23 reliable (looks like its just a blog?)

 Done

On hold for 7 days.--Dom497 (talk) 23:14, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

I have dealt with most of the issues. Thank you for taking up the review.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:13, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@Kew Gardens 613: Something I forgot to mention yesterday: Ref 19 is also dead.--Dom497 (talk) 12:08, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 Done--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 15:00, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Pass!--Dom497 (talk) 00:51, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for doing the review.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 01:02, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Second Opinion Request

A short conversation has taken place above regarding if "thejoekorner.com" is reliable (see the 16th bullet above). Based on responses from the nominator and another editor, the website owner is trustworthy. However, I cannot verify this. I'm hoping another editor can give some input regarding this source. (For reference, we are talking about reference #8 in the article).--Dom497 (talk) 02:10, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Here is proof that he worked in the TA:

• http://www.thejoekorner.com/joe-bio-2005.html
• http://www.thejoekorner.com/scripted-photo-display.shtm?* http://www.thejoekorner.com/Joe_003.jpg^Joe%20checking%20out%20for%20last%20time%20after%2033%20years%20-%204-28-2005
• http://www.thejoekorner.com/indexfrm.html

--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 10:27, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

These all come from his own website. Also, the second and third link don't work. If an a second source can be found talking about Joe, that would be preferable.--Dom497 (talk) 11:57, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

There was this WNYC podcast in 2007, but the audio has since been deleted (dead link). Joe copied the transcript to his own website here. epicgenius (talk) 13:35, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Here is a mention of him by Chairman Richard Ravitch.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 15:00, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Ok looks good. Thanks for providing the link.--Dom497 (talk) 17:03, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Use of "subway"

I have two concerns with the use of "subway" in the "highest subway station in the world" claim:

• "Subway" is a very American word; a reader outside of North America might not understand this. In the UK, as I'm sure you know, a "subway" is a tunnel underneath a busy street that allows pedestrians to cross without inconveniencing traffic. So the concept of "subway station" is meaningless in that context.
• "Subway" implies that it's underground, which of course it's not here.

So maybe we could call it the "highest elevated rail mass-transit station in the world" and it would be clearer to everyone?

Also, I put a {{fact}} tag on the footnote saying that it is not the highest above sea level. Well, what is? We should explain this here and give sources. Daniel Case (talk) 03:36, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

@Daniel Case: I removed the unsourced claim. I think it would be fine to replace "subway" with "rapid transit", because rapid transit is the same thing and shorter. epicgenius (talk) 18:02, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: OK. Daniel Case (talk) 18:23, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Photo of before/after renovation

The photos that are used as an example of the before renovation and after renovation are taken at different parts of the station. They do not accurately represent a before/after of the same location in the station. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:800E:AC00:7DDB:D18C:F8A1:6D5 (talk) 14:19, 5 April 2019 (UTC)