Talk:Sitti Nurbaya

DYK nomination

Peer review

Sitti Nurbaya

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I feel like this has a good chance to make GA. What improvements should I make before nominating? Thank you. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:10, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

• Reviewed: Days Gone Bye

Finetooth comments: Thanks for your work on this interesting article. I can offer suggestions from the viewpoint of a reader who knows nothing about Indonesian literature and little about Indonesia.

Lead

• " ...is a 1922 Indonesian novel by Marah Rusli. It was published by Balai Pustaka." - This might be slightly smoother if you moved 1922 to the second sentence: " ... is an Indonesian novel by Marah Rusli. It was published in 1922 by Balai Pustaka."

Done.

• Instead of forcing readers like me to link through to other articles for a basic understanding of terms like Balai Pustaka, it would be helpful, I think, to include a brief explanation in the text. Something like "Balai Pustaka, the state-owned bureau of literature, published the work in 1922".

Done

• Likewise, Minangkabau could be briefly explained in the lead. Maybe "The cultures of the Minangkabau people of West Sumatra and those of Europe influenced the book... ".

Done

• Is the influence European or is it Dutch? Europe includes a lot of different cultures.

Source says European, but is generalizing based on Dutch culture. Changed to Dutch.

• "Not long afterwards, Nurbaya marries the abusive and rich Datuk Meringgih as a way for her father to escape debt, eventually being killed by him." - This is a bit unclear since it might mean that Datuk Meringgih killed her father. Maybe "Not long afterwards, Nurbaya marries the abusive and rich Datuk Meringgih as a way for her father to escape debt, and Meringgih eventually kills her."

Fixed

Writing

• "a noble background with a degree in Veterinary Science" - No caps on "veterinary science".

Done

• "According to Bakri Siregar... " - Maybe briefly describe Bakri Siregar with something like "literary critic" or "Indonesian author" or whatever is appropriate? Outsiders are not likely to know who he or she is. Ditto for A. Teeuw and others on first use of their names.

Done

• "Rusli was told to return to his hometown and marry a Minangkabau woman... " - Who told him to do that? Where did the pressure come from?

Done

• Would Rusli have had to divorce his wife first, or could he be married to two women at the same time? Polygamy is mentioned much later in the article but might be mentioned here as well.

After double checking the source (both English and its Indonesian translation), it seems that he never married the Sundanese woman; his choosing her was enough to cause his family's reaction.

• Would it be helpful to add a sentence to this section explaining the long-standing Dutch connection to Indonesia? Perhaps a bit about this history could then also appear in the lead. It's hinted at in "then a member of the Dutch colonial army", but quite a few readers might wonder why a Dutch colonial army is fighting in Indonesia. The link to "Dutch colonial government" in the "Plot" section is helpful, but I think saying something explicit in the text might be helpful too. From when to when were the Dutch in Indonesia? I take it that Balai Pustaka was Dutch or controlled by the Dutch. Would it be possible to explain their motives in publishing the book, if a reliable source or sources address that question?

Done

Plot

• "Meanwhile, Datuk Meringgih, jealous of Baginda Sulaiman's... " - Usually just the last name is used on second and subsequent references to the same person.

Done

Characters

• "her as a character that is capable of making her own decisions" - She is a "who" rather than a "that".

Done

Style

• "comes across as lacking" - Maybe "is seen by Siregar as inept"?

Quotation marks added. The original is "kurang baik", which literally translated would be "less than good".

• "clichéed descriptions" - Nothing should be linked from within a direct quotation, according to the Manual of Style. Ditto for "dalang" in the Reception section.

Done

Themes

• File:Minangkabau wedding 2.jpg is used to illustrate the idea of forced marriage. Were the couple in the illustration forced to marry? If not, is it accurate and ethical to use their image in this way?

Removed

Other

• Did Rusli publish any other work?

His only work that was received even a tenth as well as Sitti Nurbaya was Anak dan Kemenakan, which doesn't seem to be related.

• Could anything be added about quantities? How many copies did Balai Pustaka originally print? Did the book sell well? Any idea how many copies have been printed altogether? Has the book or its translations and adaptations made money for anyone? Any stats at all?

Have not found any information on that. It is currently in its 44th printing; information added to the article.

References

• The date formatting throughout the references should be consistent. Citation 23 does not match the others.

That was a newspaper article, but I've cut the month and day

• The ISBNs should include the hyphens. A handy tool here will convert them.

Done

• Does the Mahayana book need a place of publication. I'm assuming that Grasindo is the publisher.

Done

• Please make sure that the existing text includes no copyright violations, plagiarism, or close paraphrasing. For more information on this please see Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches. (This is a general warning given in view of previous problems that have risen over copyvios.)

I hope these suggestions prove helpful. If so, please consider commenting on any other article at WP:PR. I don't usually watch the PR archives or make follow-up comments. If my suggestions are unclear, please ping me on my talk page. Finetooth (talk) 17:43, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sitti Nurbaya/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Yllosubmarine (talk · contribs) 18:51, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi! I will complete my review within the next day or two. Thanks in advance for your patience -- while you're waiting, perhaps you'd like to take some time to help with the backlog? :) María (habla conmigo) 18:51, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

• Thanks for the review! Regarding the backlog, I've pulled my weight. Looking forward to collaborating with you to ensure this passes the GA criteria. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:29, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

• Awesome. María (habla conmigo) 18:25, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

First of all, I know very little about Indonesian literature, so I'm coming to this article as a bit of an outsider. Overall, however, I think this article is in very good shape, and it won't take much for its promotion to GA. Here is how it stands against the criteria:

1. Well-written: For the most part; see issues below.
2. Factually accurate and verifiable: Yes.
3. Broad in its coverage: Yes.
4. Neutral: Yes.
5. Stable: Yes.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by images: Yes, although see suggestion directly following.

Cover image

• Note: this is only a suggestion, and whether or not it can be addressed will have no bearing on its promotion to GA.

The current image in the infobox is certainly visually appealing, but there are those who are really very much against using Fair Use images when free ones may be available. Since the book was published in 1922, a first edition cover or title page may be in the public domain -- but a couple preliminary searches don't seem to result in anything. So, to make a stronger fair use rationale, it would help to have a stronger case for why this particular cover image is noteworthy. I see that a couple other Wiki projects are using this cover image, however; is this a more notable depiction of the book?

• I am not sure which edition that is from, and for written works Indonesian copyright law is 50 years after the death of the author (not sure how that applies to cover designs). If the design follows the law for text, then it is still copyrighted in Indonesia until 2018. Regarding this particular image, I will add that the cover of the most recent edition is being used to keep it up to date, as the first edition cover has not been found.

• Okay, thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. Strengthening the FU rationale is a great move, and you may also want to consider adding a short description (44th printing?) to the image-caption field in the infobox. If nothing else, it'll help give the reader an example of the work's popularity. María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Lead

• ...the stated-owned publisher and literary bureau of the Dutch East Indies... -- "state-owned"?

• Owned by the government. Perhaps "government-owned"?

• Sure, although I believe it was just a typo in the earlier wording. :) María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

• Nurbaya marries the abusive and rich Datuk Meringgih as a way for her father to escape debt. -- The plot makes it clear that Nurbaya offers herself to Meringgih, but here in the lead it's more ambiguous. Since it's an important plot point, and indicative of her character/selflessness, perhaps make it stronger here?

• I've tried changing the wording.

• Much better, thanks. María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Writing

• According to Bakri Siregar, an Indonesian socialist literary critic, this influence affected the positive descriptions of Dutch culture in Sitti Nurbaya, as well as the kissing scene. This is slightly confusing, because at this point in the article (before plot and characters, and themes) the reading audience may know nothing about the book's kissing scene, nor any positive depiction of the Dutch. Perhaps if this were reworded to emphasize the inspiration and not the plot points?

• Reworded

• Great, it reads much better now, thanks. María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Plot

• When and where does this story take place? Maybe include the time period/Dutch East Indies for context?

• Reworded, although I'm not that happy with it. Any suggestions?

• Hmm, I think "in the contemporary" throws me a little. Let's face it, most readers skip the more "scholarly" sections of a book article and go straight for the plot section, so they won't know what "contemporary" is. Maybe, "In early 20th-century Padang, part of the Dutch East Indies"? If it seems too wordy, it can even be broken into a separate sentence: "The novel takes place in early 20th-century Padang..." Anything to help set the scene, I think.

• Similar to my first point, the uprising against the Dutch is mentioned in the last paragraph here, but is this a plot point/device throughout? Although pro-Dutch claims made later in the article, it's kind of hard to get a grasp of historic context right off the bat.

• No, it comes (essentially) out of nowhere. Between one chapter (chapter 9 if I'm not mistaken, can't find my copy of the book at the moment chapter 13) and the next the plot skips ahead 10 years. Nurbaya is already dead, and the reader thinks Samsu is too. No foreshadowing that Meringgih will be leading a revolt.

• Fair enough. I guess I'm just so used to thinking of story-structure in an entirely European fashion! María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

• Samsulbahri and Sitti Nurbaya are teenage neighbours, classmates, and childhood friends, children of Sutan Mahmud Syah and Baginda Sulaiman, rich noblemen from Padang. This sentence has quite a few commas, which caused me some pause while reading. What do you think about introducing a couple en dashes: "Samsulbahri and Sitti Nurbaya – children of Sutan Mahmud Syah and Baginda Sulaiman, rich noblemen from Padang – are teenage neighbours, classmates, and childhood friends." Or if you'd rather emphasize their parents, you can put the "teenage neighbors, etc." bit inside dashes?

• Tried rewording

• I fixed the dashes, but it looks good to me. María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

• When they get caught, Samsu is chased out of Padang and goes to Batavia. -- Caught by whom? I would reword it as: "When they are caught by ***, Samsu..."

• Added the information

• ...instigates a plan to bankrupt him. -- "instigate" is a great word, but wordiness bogs things down and waters down meaning: plans?

• Sure, that works (come to think of it)

• ...she dies after unwittingly eating a cake poisoned by Meringgih's men. -- Hmm, the lead states that Nurbaya is "killed by Meringgih". So did Meringgih order her to be poisoned?
• Samsu apparently commits suicide. Gasp! How?

• Not sure how he managed to fake it (detail somewhat lacking in the book), but the MO is there now

Style

• ...but a "Balai Pustaka style" of formal Malay, as required by the publisher. -- This is the first time that the body of the article mentions the publisher, which the lead notes was state-owned and tied with the Dutch East Indies government. Per WP:LEAD, this information should be expanded upon later in the article; perhaps here?

• Added

• "clichéed descriptions" -- clichéd?

• Okay, should've consulted the article on Cliché. Done.

Reception

• His later novel, Anak dan Kemenakan was even more critical of older generation's inflexibility. -- Since this novel doesn't have an article yet, perhaps include the publication date in parentheses after the title?

• Done

• Until 1930 (at least), Sitti Nurbaya was one of Balai Pustaka's most popular works... -- Why the parenthetical aside? "Until at least 1930"?

• done

• Sitti Nurbaya inspired numerous authors, including Nur Sutan Iskandar... -- So the reader doesn't have to click over, maybe include Iskandar's dates here, or a time-frame? I'm guessing if most readers are like me, they won't know when these highly influenced works would have been written.

• Done

Adaptations

• When was it first translated into English?

• I'll look for it.

• Couldn't find anything. A translation was made by the Lontar Foundation in 2009, but it must have been translated before that.

• I believe that about does it. Most of what I've noted are minor points, but feel free to take your time in addressing them. Like I said previously, the article is in overall great shape, so it won't take much to ensure it meets the criteria. I'll put this review on hold until you've had a chance to look things over. Let me know (either here or via my talk page) if you have any questions! María (habla conmigo) 18:25, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

• I've replied to your comments above. Sadly I cannot find any information on the first translation date. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:21, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

• Well, if it's not in the sources, it's not in the sources. Thanks for looking, though! I believe there's just the small issue of the first sentence in the lead to consider now. All of your changes look good to me, so once that's taken care of, I'll be happy to promote the article. Great work so far! María (habla conmigo) 22:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

• I think that about does it. I've added a caption etc. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

• Wow, that was fast! Congrats, this article now meets the criteria, so I'll go ahead and promote it. Thanks for your hard work and dedication. María (habla conmigo) 23:06, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

• Thank you for the nice, thorough review! (glad the timezones were working for us today) Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:08, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

• You're very welcome. I don't usually edit over the weekend, but I know what it feels like to wait for a reviewer to check in. :) Best wishes, María (habla conmigo) 23:14, 5 November 2011 (UTC)