Talk:Sietch

Other Cossack / Fremen connections?

This is all OR and Speculation, but it might well be Ecyclopedic if outside sources can be found.

The name "Cossack" comes from the Turkic word qazaq, meaning "free man", and the Fremen are quite clearly "free men", in name as well as nature.

The connection can also be seen in the image of Cossacks and Fremen as more or less rogue states consisting of loosely-federated pirate-warrior groups, who, despite being "the bad guys", play major roles as defenders of their respective areas from oppression and invasion. Both later become known as elite troops of a powerful empire.

The following two quotes from the Cossack article seem (to me) to be similar to sentiments expressed in the early Dune books about the Fremen:

"The Cossacks do not swear allegiance to me, and they live as they themselves please."

"The Cossacks are not my subjects, and they go to war or live in peace without my knowledge."

Maybe I'm over-thinking it, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there and see whether anyone thought it worth further research... Paul.w.bennett 18:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Speculating even further, I wonder if the etymology of Sietch Tabr alludes to the Cossack military camp or formation, tabor (formation). —Michael Z. 2007-03-29 00:20 Z

Original research, and how!

In removed this from the article. Unless there's citations to back it up, it has no place here.

Apparent etymologies

Sietch is somewhat similar to Arabic Seeq, the long narrow canyon that is the only access to the desert town of Petra. It is possible that Frank Herbert was influenced by the word for this canyon.

The word may have been taken from a real place called the Zaporizhian Sich (also pronounced in original as Sech) (with a variety of alternate spellings in English, including sietch), which was a Cossack fort on Khortytsia Island in the river Dnieper, built as a defence against the Tatars (and several later invading forces); its name is Ukrainian for "to cut" (singular) , and may refer to felling trees to clear the site and use their trunks to make a stockade. The Sietch was, for the Zaporozhe Cossacks a sort of home. Another Dune word of Ukrainian, Cossack origin is "kinjal" for a sort of knife or sword, from Russian kinzhal, as a variation from the considerable presence of the Arabic world in Dune.

None of this is ever mentioned in the Dune books or even the Dune Encyclopaedia, and hasn't been discussed in any scholarly discussions of Herbert's work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.104.43.215 (talk • contribs) 01:23, November 11, 2008