Talk:SiIvaGunner

Name clarification

It sucks that in Wikipedia's default font "I" and "l" look exactly the same, for this article in particular. It makes reading it unnecessarily confusing. For the sake of clarity, would it be alright to break tradition a bit and maybe color code each one? Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 19:25, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Arguably, the best way to do it per MOS and accessibility would be "Siivagunner, stylized as SiIvaGunner". That clears up the ambiguity. —C.Fred (talk) 20:07, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

The problem with that is that it isn't a stylization. Most people do refer to the group as "SiIvaGunner". Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 20:42, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Three words, spliced together? Si-Iva-Gunner? (In which case we need a pronunciation note.) —C.Fred (talk) 21:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

A pronunciation note would be good in any case. I'll add one in. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 22:04, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Yoninah (talk) 09:13, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

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• Article history

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• ... that YouTube channel SiIvaGunner uploads videos claiming to be video game soundtracks which are actually remixes?
  • ALT1:... that YouTube channel SiIvaGunner uploads videos claiming to be video game soundtracks which are actually remixes and internet memes?

Created by OmegaFallon (talk). Self-nominated at 20:08, 23 May 2020 (UTC).

• Only 1010 chars long. Kingoflettuce (talk) 05:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• Article has been expanded well past the minimum 1500 prose characters, but is currently at Articles for deletion. When that closes, the review can resume (or, if deleted, the nomination can close). BlueMoonset (talk) 04:25, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• New reviewer needed now that AfD has closed as "keep". Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:41, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

• Article was new at time of nomination, exceeds character limit of 1500, is free of serious article issues (a couple of non-surprising uncited sentences persist). Hook is within limit and is accessible and potentially interesting to a broad audience. Source for hook verified here. Hook is good to go now Article for Deletion has been closed as keep. SFB 14:10, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

• @OmegaFallon: On a note unrelated to the hook, the image used on the article does not appear to be correct. The image used is only present on the GiIvaSunner account, not the SiIvaGunner one which is the subject of the article. I suggest to remove this image as it does not pass non-free content rules as it is not about the subject. SFB 14:10, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

It was Siiva's icon at the time of writing the article. Recently, it changed for a channel event, but it's expected to return to its original icon soon. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 19:32, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

• Numerous tags in the article must be addressed before this can be promoted. I'm also wondering if the negative-sounding hook could be softened by adding parody at the beginning? Yoninah (talk) 20:10, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Edited it. Hopefully it's good now. Also, linking "parody" could be useful for providing clarification. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 22:39, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you. Restoring tick and promoting. Yoninah (talk) 17:29, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• reopening per discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#Queue_5:_SiIvaGunner. Article needs to be expanded and improved.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:48, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

  @Sillyfolkboy: @OmegaFallon: pinging so you're aware this is reopen.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:25, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

• Per OmegaFallon, when directly queried on their talk page: The way the article is currently is roughly the most we can get it at without anyone raising concerns about original research. So, I'd say closing it is all that can be done. Marking this for closure based on this comment, which is effectively withdrawing the nomination; the article as it currently is runs 1312 prose characters, too short for DYK. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:49, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Confirming my support for this. The article isn't really in a stable or very good state. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 05:30, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Primary sources

The article is marked with a "too many primary sources" tophat. As I see it, there isn't really a clean way of solving this problem, as there aren't any suitable secondary replacements. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 03:36, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Most of this article is original research

That is, until I started cleaning that stuff out. You can't add a bunch of your opinions in an article about a SiIvaGunner youtube upload, and then link to that SiIvaGunner youtube upload as your source. That's a primary source. The only fact that can be sourced to those videos is the fact that they exist. Everything else is WP:OR. Same goes for tweets. I'll be continuing the cleanup now. JimKaatFan (talk) 06:11, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I understand the intent and it is a lot easier to read now, but in the cleanup process you also got rid of a lot of purely factual and informative sections of the page. The lore, Bandcamp and King For A Day-events are all substantial parts of the channel that help define what it is and deserve to be mentioned. FSMellon (talk) 14:22, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I got rid of information that wasn't sourced. Whether it's factual or not, all information on the page requires a reliable source if it's going to be included. Believe it or not, I looked for sourcing for the stuff that wasn't obviously just some fan writing his opinions. What I found about SiIvaGunner was about 3 sources that are already included in the article. There's really not that much out there. I actually can't understand how this article passed the afd as a "keep". JimKaatFan (talk) 16:01, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

There are a fair amount of sources indicating it, and it's fairly well known among internet culture, so I think that's how it passed. That being said I appreciate your edits, the article was getting a bit bloated and uncited. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 19:45, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

"fairly well known among internet culture" hits the nail on the head. There isn't nearly enough to pass it if this was an article on, say, a respected scientist, but because it's internet culture-related, enough Wikipedia editors have heard of it to say "oh sure that should pass." Shouldn't be that way, but I guess that's the downside of having a crowd-sourced encyclopedia where the biggest contributors spend most of their time online. C'est la vie. JimKaatFan (talk) 19:51, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I hardly see it as a downside, but w/e, people have different views on these things. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 19:55, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

It's a downside in the sense that there are well-established guidelines for what should and shouldn't have an article, but things that are the pet favorites of 16-hour-a-day internet dwellers get a pass. There's absolutely no policy that says "fairly well known among internet culture" is a criteria for determining deletion or inclusion, but there it is, de facto instead of de jure. In an ideal Wikipedia, editors would be able to put their personal feeling about a Youtube channel aside and judge it solely on WP:GNG. If that had happened here, this article would have disappeared in a puff of non-notability. JimKaatFan (talk) 20:08, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I've laid out my arguments for why it does pass the guidelines in the AfD, but in any case, the decision was made and the article will stay until somebody challenges it again. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 21:48, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Regardless, I don't see why a secondary source is needed to describe things that the channel, quite clearly, does. A secondary source doesn't need to exist for a book's plot summary to be verifiable, as it's all factual statements verifiable by the book itself. The video, "Welcome to SiIvaGunner", from the channel itself, describes the story elements of the channel as a key part of its identity alongside the music uploads. Putting aside both your personal opinion on whether the page itself should stay up, or my personal respect for the channel as a whole: Why is that not enough verification to include it on the page? FSMellon (talk) 09:07, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Not for verifiability, you're quite right about that -- the contention is how reliable the sources are in establishing notability Kingoflettuce (talk) 10:09, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Exactly. I could go to the article for any Youtuber and start adding things that are in their videos, but if those things aren't mentioned in a secondary source, they're not notable enough to include in the article. If that policy wasn't in place, you could theoretically add elements from YouTube videos ad infinitum. Please read WP:YTREF. JimKaatFan (talk) 14:55, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Heads up

Due to what's happening on the channel today, somebody might try and edit the audio file and the text about it on this page. Just revert it and move on. RteeeeKed (talk) 17:09, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

In case anyone wants more details... For April Fools' Day this year, most of the Mario-related videos on the channel were temporarily set to private, and several dozen videos were uploaded depicting Mario as dead and/or erased from this plane of existence. The SiIvaGunner Wiki has a page on the event. 73.157.115.95 (talk) 17:09, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

SiIvaGunner != GilvaSunner

There's been a lot of confusion about this recently, so just to clarify (I'm using a monospace font to clearly show the spelling of the two terms):

GilvaSunner, the channel uploading unedited video game music, has been deleted. SiIvaGunner, the parody music group and subject of this article, is here to stay. Check it out, it's still up: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ecwl3FTG66jIKA9JRDtmg Flowermanvista (talk) 01:24, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Lore, events and whatnot

The article only really describes the bare minimum of what SiIva does. Though most of what happens isn't nearly important enough to add to this wiki (like the kazoo rips or AMUNO le film), I'm surprised there's no mention of more important things like the still ongoing Christmas Comeback Crisis or the KFaDs. Should it stay like this for now, or should something be added? cogsan (talk) 19:38, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

i think at least a passing mention of the lore it's built up is worth including, going into minute detail probably isn't necessary though. 𝐆𝐆𝐢𝐬𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 - 𝐓𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐢𝐬 𝐚 𝐜𝐞𝐫𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐢𝐞𝐝 𝐡𝐨𝐨𝐝 𝐜𝐥𝐚𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐜 01:25, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

myeah, theres a bunch of stuff on this talk page about how all that stuff would need to be sourced as well, and i dont see a good way to do that 𝐆𝐆𝐢𝐬𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 - 𝐓𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐢𝐬 𝐚 𝐜𝐞𝐫𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐢𝐞𝐝 𝐡𝐨𝐨𝐝 𝐜𝐥𝐚𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐜 01:27, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Best I can think of is the Mojo, because I saw absolutely no news coverage about KfaD2 back in the day. Probably because I avoided the news entirely so I wouldn't have MissingNo.'s inevitable loss spoiled, but that`s besides the point.

Still kinda bummed there's absolutely no mention of it, and I don't really know if it would need anything more than "this channel has lore btw. nice >:]". cogsan (talk) 00:47, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

the mojo's still a primary source tho, and my memory is fuzzy on kfad in general anyhow 𝐆𝐆𝐢𝐬𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 - 𝐓𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐢𝐬 𝐚 𝐜𝐞𝐫𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐢𝐞𝐝 𝐡𝐨𝐨𝐝 𝐜𝐥𝐚𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐜 01:04, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Right. Frick!

Also, your memories should probably stay fuzzy. I don't think this wiki needs to know why the mixer can suddenly speak (and is also Australian), or why ZUN had a fumo before they were cool. cogsan (talk) 11:03, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Redirects?

Can I make some redirects to this page, namely making "mm2wood" redirect here. Club On a Sub 20 (talk) 16:07, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

I guess you could also make arguments for other memes like Loud Nigra, нет, and whatever else, but mm2wood sounds good. cogsan (talk) 19:26, 1 March 2023 (UTC)