Talk:Senjutsu (album)

senjutsu meaning

it doesn't mean "tactics and strategy" it means the "art of war" "battle plans, war plans, etc. There is no exact English translation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 240D:1A:8AF:4D00:2DFE:5C2:6BC:50E4 (talk) 10:20, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

I alluded to this in my recent edit summary, but on the contrary, I must contend that it corresponds to the English term "tactics" about as well as any translator could hope for in any language. The conceptual distinction between "tactics" and "strategy" observed in English is matched in Japanese, as may be seen in the Japanese article on ja:戦術, which has a section discussing the difference between 戦術 and 戦略, i.e. tactics and strategy (戦史の戦術). The Daijirin, the monolingual Japanese dictionary I have to hand, defines 戦術 as "個々の具体的な戦闘における戦闘力の使用法。普通、長期、広範の展望をもつ戦略の下位に属する。" - "The individual direction of combat power in a battle. Generally, this is subordinate to strategy [戦略], which takes an outlook considering the long-term and larger areas." (Emphasis and square brackets added by me). This is the definition of tactics as it is understood in English. The same dictionary lists the terms 戦術核 (tactical nuclear [armaments]) and 戦術兵器 (tactical armaments) with specific reference to their counterparts "戦略核" (strategic nuclear [armaments]) and 戦略兵器 (strategic armaments). The term may also be used more broadly in a lay context, but this is equally true of "tactics" in English. It really just means "tactics".

I appreciate that this makes for a worse album title when it lacks the vagueness and mystery, but I believe that the prevalent urge to see such things where they are not in Japanese words (which I can't help but think the band fell victim to when they came up with the title) is to be resisted, not least because it is counterfactual. Likewise, interpreting Japanese words purely in terms of their consituent characters. They may lend connotation, just as discernable etymologies do in English, but this is not how the language is read by competent speakers. Ichigoichigo (talk) 11:25, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

moody blues

this piece of information...

The album contains two consecutive Moody Blues references in its track names - the song “Lost in a Lost World” is named after the opening track on the album Seventh Sojourn, while “Days of Future Past” references the album Days of Future Passed.

... while interesting, needs a citation, or it needs to be deleted. Unless someone from the band says so, it could (and should) be regarded as a coincidenceRobbmonster (talk) 05:35, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Progressive metal

I think progressive metal should be added to the album genres. I'm leaving here some sources:
1. "the ten-song set leans hard into the band's progressive tendencies"
2. "For those of us that appreciate prog rock every bit as much as metal (...) this was a very good thing", "The second disc comprises just four tracks, three of which (...) are likely to cause fans of Maiden’s proggier side to lose their minds."
3. "Typified by epic prog-leaning arrangements and ambitious melodic dynamism, modern era Maiden – of which Senjutsu is a prime example (...)"
4. "Like 2015’s The Book Of Souls, this is a sprawling double-album and, like most of Maiden’s 21st century output, it gives their more epic and progressive tendencies free rein", "Elsewhere Lost In A Lost World is both melancholy and progressive."
5. "“Hell on Earth,” (...) It’s progressive in the most literal sense (...)"
6. "Maiden take their new work—more concerned with slow-building atmosphere and progressive song structures than the live-wire energy of their biggest albums—just as seriously as the classics.", "“The Writing on the Wall” feels new for them, borrowing from country and blues in a way this progged-out version of Maiden never has before."
Opinions? Jocafus (talk) 14:03, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Leaving here two more sources:
7. "Senjutsu, their 17th album, is their most progressive masterstroke yet"
8. "Iron Maiden’s 17th studio album is one of their most fervently progressive and adventurous yet" (and this source is a Top 20 albums of 2021 by Prog, a magazine that writes about prog music)

Some of the sources say that the whole album has progressive tencendes, others that it's, and other sources only mention the epics by Harris as progressive. But Harris' epics last for 44 minutes, more than half of the album's length! If this isn't enough to qualify the album also as "progressive metal" then I don't know what is needed, a giant signal that says "This album can be qualified as progressive!"? Jocafus (talk) 19:08, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

References

Just a reminder that calling an album progressive DOES NOT immediately equate to the progressive metal genre. I understand how it can seem obvious from these sources, but if you pay full attention to any of them, you'll notice that not a single one actually classifies the album as progressive metal. At worst, they mention progressive tendencies, which is not nearly enough evidence to add progressive metal as a genre, and at best, they consider Senjutsu the band's "most progressive" effort, which is also not enough since it's only comparing this outing to previous ones by the band itself, and not to other well established progressive metal acts. There was a similar discussion that took place on the Seventh Son and main Maiden talk pages, and the consensus there was also to remove progressive metal from the infobox. I support keeping it out of this one too.

Also, since this is now a separate debate, please keep from adding anything back until we've reached a consensus. MiaHarris74 (talk) 01:03, 14 December 2021 (UTC)