Talk:Seaholm High School

I added "Staci" for Mrs. Peterson

Self-explantory

Notable alumni list

I removed the "factual dispute" tag that was on this article. If you still dispute the accuracy of any of the entries on this alumni list, please state your reasons here. Bry9000 (talk) 01:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Because they all need references, Bry9000. Here they are:

• Tim Allen, actor/comedian (1971)
• Jay Bennish, geography teacher at Overland High School, subject of controversy in 2006
• Mike Binder, (1976), actor/director
• Douglas Clemons, (1976) Film Writer/Producer/Editor; known for All Jacked Up (film)
• Pamela Anne Eldred, (1966) Miss America (1970)
• Laura Innes, (1975) actress
• Christine Lahti, actress (1968)
• Liz Larin, songwriter/musician with Bona Dea Music
• Elizabeth Reaser, Actress (1993)
• Aaron Simpson, Emmy-nominated animation producer (1989)
• Noel Paul Stookey, Peter, Paul & Mary, singer
• Kelley Stoltz, Songwriter/Musician, Recording artist with Sub Pop Records (1990)
• Dr. James Tobin, author, (1974) Ernie Pyle's War (Free Press)
• Carolyn Warmus, schoolteacher and convicted murderer
• Robin Williams, comedian and actor, (9th grade only)
• Beth Hayes (1955-1984), Distinguished Northwestern University economist who produced major research in the fields of insurance economics, utility regulation, information economics, labor stikes, and two-part tariffs. In 1994, the University of Pennsylvania established the The Beth Hayes Prize for Graduate Research Accomplishment in her honor.

All need refs proving they went to the school. WhisperToMe (talk) 09:42, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I added Tim Allen, Mike Binder, Laura Innes, and Christine Lahti back into the article. I added references for Allen, Binder, and Innes but could not find any website listing Lahti's high school. I know she went there though because my mother attended the school at the same time. --Ewick12 (talk) 06:12, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

External links modified

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Alumni again

Inclusion requires reliable sourcing - and the subject needs to be notable. If there is disagreement on this point we should discuss it here, which is of course preferable to edit warring. JohnInDC (talk) 13:52, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

• (The following is moved in from User talk:JohnInDC:)

Hi John,

I'm new to making any Wikipedia edits, and I thought this subject would be one that I could do so on a factual level, so I'm hoping to get some guidance from you to learn these ropes. As I am new, I'm sure that I have a different perception of the meaning of terms such as notable, etc. I've looked at some of the precedent and I see that there is empowerment for editors to exercise judgement and reasonableness in the spirit of the better good.

Regarding my recent edit of Christy Sica Edwards as an American Actress as being notable, I believe that she is as notable at least as Professor Bryant. Also I see that links to many of the notes and references are dead, so I wonder about how the integrity of those things are maintained.

One could argue that simply being an actress, or a professor, in and of themselves either are or are not notable... it certainly is a matter of opinion.

My first responses as to the authenticity of her status as an alumni I argue are no more formal or informal than the status of the rest of the Alumni under Notable Alumni.

So would you be willing to help me understand the etiquette? I'm wondering how much of the rejection of my edits is based on etiquette or a lack of understanding on my part. Certainly, the edits are based on facts.

What are your recommendations?

Vogeljc0924 (talk) 14:04, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. First off, when I'm done responding here on my Talk page, I'm going to move the whole thing over to Talk:Seaholm High School so that others can weigh in if they want. Moving along - a really good rule of thumb for these "notable" lists is when the subject has a Wikipedia article about them. While not completely airtight, that is a pretty good indicator of notability. Stated another way, one would probably have to argue for deletion of that underlying article (and succeed) to claim that the subject wasn't notable. Also a good rule of thumb, for avoiding lengthy arguments about whether a person without an article is notable for purposes of lists like these, is that to be included on such a list, there should be a separate standalone article. That appears to be lacking here (and immediately distinguishes Christy from Professor Bryant); so for the sake of discussion we'll go on to the question of notability. The first good place to learn about that is Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Entertainers, which lays out criteria for when an actor or actress is typically deemed notable. These are not exclusive, but are indicative, and by these measures, Christy Sica Edwards with her (apparently) minor roles in (apparently) minor movies would seem to fall far short. Next you should look at WP:Reliable to gain a sense of what sources are deemed sufficiently reliable to support information in Wikipedia. Broadly speaking, IMDB is not deemed acceptable - see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Film/Resources#Questionable_resources for a bit more on that. I did a couple of quick Google searches on Christy (with and without "Sica") and came up with precious little reliable coverage of her film career - indeed so little as to suggest to me that, if an article were written about her, it would soon be deleted for failure to meet the notability requirement. So in the end, she really doesn't have a place as a "notable" alumnus of Seaholm - she just fails to meet the test. Is this helpful? JohnInDC (talk) 20:14, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

I would add just a bit to that. First, notability is best shown by meeting the general notability guideline. This requires finding multiple reliable sources that discuss the subject in detail. To add a person that meets GNG but does not have an article to a notable list in a community or school is allowed but rarely done for two reasons. First, the encyclopedia is better served by the creation of the biography and if you have enough sourcing to show notability, 75% of the work to create the biography is done. So why not just write it? Second, to add enough references to a REDLINK entry in a notable list would create serious clutter issues. Now there are numerous exceptions to GNG that have a much lower threshold of notability. Examples include (but are not limited to): Anyone ever elected to a state or federal level office or anyone who has ever played even one play in big league professional sports are automatically notable. This can be shown with a single reference to notability and if needed a reference to attendance. Those type instances are when the exception to having an article are appropriate. And I agree with the other John that the young lady you are trying to add is most likely not notable yet. That does not mean she never will be. Thanks for talking. Results of discussion are much more pleasant than the results of edit warring. John from Idegon (talk) 00:13, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Flexible scheduling

@Mszalkowski:@John from Idegon: Hi! I saw the edit summary.

A special course at this school that us discussed in an independent, reliable secondary source (Christian Science Monitor) should indeed be relevant to this page. It is an aspect of this school and the aspect can be covered appropriately with proper weight (meaning the amount of the article that talks about it). I reviewed the source and the content and restored it with a short sentence.

(John seems to be taking a break but I am pinging him as a courtesy) WhisperToMe (talk) 00:50, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

I think it has even more relevant content so I added it WhisperToMe (talk) 00:53, 30 June 2019 (UTC)