Talk:Schengen Area

Romania and Bulgaria joined Schengen in October 2023!

Romania and Bulgaria joined Schengen in October 2023! New Welaeonska (talk) 15:13, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

It's unlikely they join this year. A 2 days old source:^[1]--BIL (talk) 19:31, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, Romania and Bulgaria can join into the Schengen on October 2023! HOORAY! I AM EXCITED! 2A02:2F04:A312:3F00:DDFF:CF26:6599:E6AD (talk) 10:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Look at the date. Your source is from 2011. Dima1 (talk) 10:50, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi!

România and Bulgaria has already joined in Schengen today! Thanks! 213.233.108.202 (talk) 07:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Not so. You can see in the European Council page that the Justice and Home Affairs Council did not include the admission of Romania and Bulgaria in their 4-5 December 2023 meeting. Gorpik (talk) 11:47, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Bulgaria

An IP editor keeps removing reference to Bulgaria, saying that it won't happen, blaming Austria. Via the edit note, I invite them to put the evidence here. But meanwhile, the process appears to be continuing:

• https://sofiaglobe.com/2023/12/22/parliament-in-the-netherlands-votes-in-favour-of-bulgarias-admission-to-schengen-report/
• https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-to-veto-bulgarias-schengen-bid-over-tax-on-russia-gas-minister-says/
• https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/12/11/brussels-welcomes-austrias-proposal-of-air-schengen-for-romania-and-bulgaria

So not evident. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:39, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Split article about Bulgaria and Romania

Hello, I am pretty sure no country's accession has been as complicated and politicized as that of Bulgaria and Romania. This has been a controversial topic for a decade already as several countries, primarily the Netherlands, vetoed their accession. It has required heavy negotiation between many political bodies and has affected the domestic politics in Bulgaria, Romania and Austria specially. For example, in Austria, the conservative government is under pressure of applying more restrictive measures against migration, which affects this issue [2]. From Romania there were even threats of sueing Austria [3], as well as threats of ending gas projects with Austrian companies [4]. It has also erupted distrust and hate between inhabitants of these countries [5] [6]. There were also theories of Austria blocking both to favor Russia [7]. I think there's a lot to write about. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 14:22, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree that a separate page is needed, because the main one is already over populated and definitely (and personally sadly) it is going to have further developments down the road in 2024, possibly in 2025. Naskox (talk) 19:09, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Also agree a page is warranted. I don't think that the current content is necessarily overdone, but as stated there is a lot to write about that would be overdone here. CMD (talk) 08:10, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it makes sense. Super Dromaeosaurus, since you have almost started it anyway, consider yourself volunteered to make it happen. WP:BEBOLD. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:04, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Better trim out the Ro-Bg section and make it look as they are "partially joined" in the Schenghen area. Alexceltare2 (talk) 07:22, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Any appetite to simply merge this information into 2007 enlargement of the European Union? I don't know if a separate article is exactly warranted although something should happen. Yeoutie (talk) 19:23, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

This article does not have to be split because Bulgaria and Romania are part of Schengen area, will provide Schengen Visa like all other member states, will be part in Concilium Schengen Justice and Home Affairs and have air and maritim boarder lifted. Like Greece, Romania and Bulgaria have both the same status. All three states have no interne terrestrial boardes lifted. In rest they have the same status, obligations and rights.

When someone is reading about Ro and Bg will know that terrestrial boarders are not lifted and will be lifted sometime in the future. 2A02:2F04:119:8400:DC4A:6DA2:405A:DE83 (talk) 11:30, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

The map and the article have to be updated. As of today 31 March 2024, Bulgaria and Romania ARE full members of the Schengen area, with border checks lifted on air and land borders, with partial border control still remaining on land borders.

this is not accurate to still group Bulgaria and Romania together with Cyprus and say they are “obligated to join in the future”. 77.85.21.34 (talk) 12:44, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

I have updated the remaining maps now. --Nablicus (talk) 12:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

If Greece is in the same color with all other states so Romania and Bulgaria have to have the same color. They have the same status. Full memebers, visa Schengen, Concilium, etc. and no internal boarders lifted. If you color different Romania and Bulgaria, Greece have to have the same color like them. 2A02:2F04:119:8400:ADD7:205C:CBE6:4C7B (talk) 16:02, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Kosovo

Kosovo finally can enter Schengen visa-free, as is shown clearly in this article. The title is however misleading as it suggests Kosovo is joining Schengen. From teh context in the article it is clear that is not the case (it says is joins its balkan neighours, who are also not members). Other articles are more precize (eg here and here)....

It therefore is not correct to add Kosovo as a Schengen member. L.tak (talk) 20:53, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Bulgaria & Romania - acceding members

I was wondering whether there should be another color on that map - maybe a light blue - for acceding members. We could change the meaning of that light blue to "partial members (Schengen rules apply to air and sea-travel) in March. Xolani (talk) 15:45, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea; especially since such a new colour will be absolutely needed from March on as you anticipate. I'll see if it is a nicely formatted editable svg file. If so, I'll change it... L.tak (talk) 16:28, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Awesome! I've in fact already changed as proposed, but I don't have the rights to overwrite files on Commons. So don't know how to proceed. Xolani (talk) 21:08, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I just uploaded my edited version, provisionally. I also changed the legend to reflect new color. Please feel free to just overwrite the original file. I will then delete my edited version.File:Map of the Schengen Area BG RO acceding.svg Xolani (talk) 22:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

@Xolani: That new version fails MOS:CONTRAST, and so the obligatory WP:ACCESSIBILITY: I cannot tell the difference between the two lighter shades of blue. Bazza (talk) 09:12, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Good point @Bazza 7! I've updated colors to achieve better contrast. Xolani (talk) 10:38, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I've now applied for overwriting rights for the original file - and requested deletion of provisional file linked above. Xolani (talk) 12:09, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't see the point of marking BG and RO with a different color than Cyprus. Until the air and maritime border controls are lifted on 31 March 2024 there are no practical differences between the countries. There is no such thing as "acceeding members" of the Schengen area. --Nablicus (talk) 15:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Hmm. But then, why is there a whole heading in the article called "Acceding members"? Also, when you look at other enlargment articles (i.e. Potential enlargement of the European Union), the different stages of negotiation are clearly shown on the map (candidate vs. candidate negotiating vs. chapter frozen etc.). I think the same could apply here. Xolani (talk) 22:15, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, you can talk about "acceeding members" in the generic sense that some countries are bound by the Schengen acquis, but yet have to fully implement it. That category includes Bulgaria, Cyprus, and Romania, and these countries are already marked with a different color on the map (orange). --Nablicus (talk) 13:54, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, but you and I both know that there is a huge difference between Cyprus and BG/RO: the latter are guaranteed partial accession by March, through a contract signed by all parties. Therefore it is not just "might join eventually" as is the case with Cyprus, but "guaranteed to join this year". Big difference, no? How was it handled for EU accession, for example when Croatia was joining? Xolani (talk) 13:19, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

If you want to go ahead, please do so! I don't have a strong opinion against, although I still think it is premature to change the colors of BG and RO before they actually have (partially) accessed the Schengen area. As far as I know, we haven't done that for neither previous Schengen area enlargements nor for Eurozone enlargements. Nablicus (talk) 13:37, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

I disagree. From 31st March 2024 there will be obvious difference between BG, RO and Cyprus. First BG and RO will be able to issue Schengen visas, Cyprus would not. Second escpeccial important for Cyprus (being an island) BG and RO will be part of Schengen area so maritime borders will be abolished, which will not be the case for Cyprus and more, but even this is enough for differentiation on the map between RO, BG and Cyprus. Naskox (talk) 22:37, 5 January 2024 (UTC)y

Yes, from 31 March 2024, there will obviously be a big difference between BG, RO, and Cyprus, and that should be visible on the map from that date. That's not what we discuss here though. --Nablicus (talk) 13:33, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

My bad, I didnt

nderstand you correctly the first time. Until 31st March - yes there is no point in making the map, just the info on the page is sufficient in my opinion. Naskox (talk) 13:50, 6 January 2024 (UTC)u

Alright, as there is now a second user in favor of waiting, I won't change colors until March 31st. :) Xolani (talk) 15:38, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

I have now changed colors, as discussed. ~~~~ Xolani (talk) 22:23, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Some maps in the article still depict Bulgaria and Romania as "not participating but obliged to join". What is more, the Euler diagram still fails to include Bulgaria and Romania in the Schengen Area. Keep in mind that legally speaking, Bulgaria and Romania are full Schengen members since March 31, 2024, as they are obliged to implement the Schengen acquis EVEN for land travel and DESPITE the fact that land border controls have not yet been lifted. Partial accession refers exactly to the fact that land border controls at the borders of Bulgaria and Romania have been kept intact because of Austria, which, however, does not alter the status and obligations of these two countries as full Schengen members. Goombario64 (talk) 08:21, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Bulgaria and Romania have only partially entered.

I don't think we should remove Bulgaria and Romania yet from the table.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area?useskin=vector#Summary_table

Land borders, the most prominent element of Schengen is still not implemented, and is being blocked by Austria. I think that both countries stay with a note, that only sea and land elements are to be opened, and only in March will it be implemented. Midgetman433 (talk) 22:16, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, indeed, it was removed by some user and not properly restored when the edits were reverted. It should be back now. --Nablicus (talk) 19:09, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Maps

AT

BE

HR

CZ

DK

EE

FI

FR

DE

GR

HU

IT

LV

LT

LU

MT

NL

PL

PT

SK

SI

ES

SE

IS

LI

NO

CH

VA

SM

MC

CY

RO

BG

UK

IE

 Schengen Area (EU) 

 Schengen Area (non-EU) 

 Schengen Area (Partially Implemented) 

 Working to implement later (EU) 

 Common Travel Area (EU & Non-EU) 

 De facto Schengen participation 

view

 Azores, Madeira and Canary Islands are also in the Schengen Area 

This is a clickable map

  EU member states participating

  EU member states not participating but obliged to join

  EU member state with an opt-out

  non-EU member states participating

  non-EU member states de facto participating

  non-EU member states with an open border

These two maps are fully identical, and also third map on top of the article is kind of similar. Why duplicating information? There needs to be one map representing Schengen area with a clear legend. I suggest merging them into one. --Dima1 (talk) 10:47, 22 January 2024 (UTC)