Talk:Samuel Rousseau

Not related to Jean-Jacques Rousseau

As my username indicates, I am very interested in the history of French settlement in 18th century London, and I have had occasion to do some research on the ancestry of Samuel Kent Rousseau. As far as I can tell, he was not related - or at least, not closely - to the philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau after all. I have two sources for this. Firstly, the Gentleman's Magazine, May 1798, page 414, says:

"Rousseau, Samuel, nephew to the celebrated French writer of the same surname*. He was employed by Mr. John Nichols to copy the epitaphs in Islington church and church-yard. How faithfully he executed this task is evident from the copious enumeration of them, which is annexed to the History and Antiquities of Canonbury-House, Islington."

Though it would be no reproach to any man that the course of Nature game him affinity to one of the most eccentric and inconsistent modern Philosophers, yet it so happens that the writer here sneered at is not of kin to Jean-Jacques. And, as honest industry should never be defrauded of its reward, though Mr J. Nichols is our printer, we hesitate not to say, that Samuel Rousseau ranked for some years amongst his most diligent and intelligent compositors, and has since been deservedly promoted to the mastership of a free-school, which he is now about to resign, and to engage, on his own account, in the business of a printer.

Secondly, the Annales de la Société Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Volume 7 (1911), pp92-96, has an article on the genealogy of the Rousseau family, which covers a number of subjects and includes a family tree. The part relevant here reads:

Dans le Dictionary of National Biography de Sidney Lee, 49e volume, Londres, 1897, on lit la notice suivante : « Rousseau, Samuel (11763-1820) imprimeur et orientaliste, né à Londres, était le fils aîné de Philippe Rousseau, lequel en son temps, avec John Nichols, était compagnon ouvrier dans l'imprimerie Bowyer. Il était le cousin de Jean-Jacques Rousseau, qui parle de lui comme étant connu pour bon parent et pour honnête homme. »

Ces derniers mots se trouvent dans la longue lettre de Rousseau à Hume, du 10 juillet 1766 ; mais ils ne se rapportent pas à ce Philippe Rousseau, imprimeur, dont parle le Dictionary ; ils concernent ce Jean Rousseau, qui est à côté de lui sur notre tableau.

Jean Rousseau, né à Genève le 5 novembre 1724, fils de Jean-François Rousseau et de Renée Berjon, avait quitté sa ville natale et s'était établi à Londres, où il est mort le 24 avril 1795. C'était le cousin issu de germain de Jean-Jacques, qui soutint avec lui, de 1761 à 1766, toute une correspondance. M. Courtois en a publié une partie dans le tome VI des Annales.

Si le Dictionary s'est trompé en identifiant Philippe Rousseau, père de Samuel, avec ce Jean Rousseau qui a joué un petit rôle dans les aventures de Jean-Jacques en Angleterre, il se pourrait néanmoins que le philosophe de Genève ait eu quelque parenté avec Philippe et Samuel. Nous savons en effet que Jacob Rousseau, un des grands-oncles de Jean-Jacques, était établi à Londres en 1684.

A ce moment, le père de ce Jacob, Jean II Rousseau, mourut à 78 ans, le 26 mai 1684, laissant une postérité nombreuse ; il fallut liquider l'hoirie. A cet effet, Jacob Rousseau, dans un acte reçu par maître Wriglet, notaire à Londres, et daté du 15 décembre 1684, donna sa procuration à Jean-Louis Durand, citoyen de Genève; cette pièce est citée dans plusieurs actes: Jean-Antoine Comparet, notaire, 16 janvier 1685, 15e volume, folio 43; François Joly, notaire, 17 janvier 1685, premier volume, folios 185, 189, et 193.

Si Jacob Rousseau, qui n'est pas revenu à Genève, s'est marié en Angleterre et y a fait souche, il a pu être le grand-père de Philippe Rousseau, qui se serait trouvé ainsi le cousin issu de germain de Jean-Jacques. Mais ce n'est la qu'une hypothèse en l'air; je souhaite, sans trop l'espérer, qu'un généalogiste anglais fasse quelques recherches pour retrouver, dans les registres conservés à Londres, quelque trace de l'existence de Jacob Rousseau.

In translation (by Google Translate, but checked and corrected by me):

In Sidney Lee's Dictionary of National Biography, 49th volume, London, 1897, we read the following entry: "Rousseau, Samuel (11763-1820) printer and orientalist, born in London, was the eldest son of Philippe Rousseau, who in his time, with John Nichols, was a journeyman laborer in the Bowyer printing press. He was the cousin of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who speaks of him as being known as a good parent and an honest man."

These last words are found in Rousseau's long letter to Hume, July 10, 1766; but they do not relate to that Philippe Rousseau, printer, of whom the Dictionary speaks; they concern this Jean Rousseau, who is next to him on our table.

Jean Rousseau, born in Geneva on November 5, 1724, son of Jean-François Rousseau and Renée Berjon, had left his native town and settled in London, where he died on April 24, 1795. He was the cousin of Jean-Jacques, who maintained with him, from 1761 to 1766, a whole correspondence. M. Courtois has published part of it in volume VI of the Annales.

If the Dictionary was mistaken in identifying Philippe Rousseau, father of Samuel, with this Jean Rousseau who played a small role in the adventures of Jean-Jacques in England, it could nevertheless be that the philosopher of Geneva had some relationship with Philip and Samuel. We know that Jacob Rousseau, one of Jean-Jacques' great-uncles, was established in London in 1684.

At this time, the father of this Jacob, Jean II Rousseau, died at the age of 78, on May 26, 1684, leaving a numerous posterity; it was necessary to liquidate the inheritance. To this end, Jacob Rousseau, in a deed received by Mr Wriglet, notary in London, and dated December 15, 1684, gave his power of attorney to Jean-Louis Durand, citizen of Geneva; this document is quoted in several deeds: Jean-Antoine Comparet, notary, January 16, 1685, 15th volume, folio 43; François Joly, notary, January 17, 1685, first volume, folios 185, 189, and 193.

If Jacob Rousseau, who did not return to Geneva, married in England and established himself there, he could have been the grandfather of Philippe Rousseau, who would thus have found himself the second cousin of Jean-Jacques Rousseau. But this is only an empty hypothesis; I hope, without too much hope, that an English genealogist will do some research to find, in the registers kept in London, some trace of the existence of Jacob Rousseau.

Which is all fascinating, but mostly serves to illustrate a negative: no-one has ever been able to prove that the London printing family of Rousseaus were related to the Geneva watch-making family from which Jean-Jacques Rousseau descended. (A similar observation is made, from a different perspective, in L’horloger du sérail: Aux sources du fantasme oriental chez Jean-Jacques Rousseau by Paul Dumont and Remy Hildebrand. That's from 2006, so it looks like no progress had been made in the nearly a century since Volume 7 of the Annales appeared.) What's the best way, in Wikipedia sourcing and editing terms, to ensure that the mistaken claim about Samuel Kent Rousseau doesn't keep finding its way into his article, without giving undue weight to it? GenevieveDEon (talk) 14:34, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Request for comment on the above

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The existing text repeats an often-made but unproven and possibly false assertion about the subject's genealogy. How do we best refute this with the sources provided, without making too much of the biographical article be about the genealogical dispute? GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:13, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

• This article should summarize the reliable sources with due weight. I'm not sure there is anything else to add to this RfC. Nemov (talk) 16:02, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Revised, with new sources

I've now expanded and revised the article to take account of the sources above and many others. I hope that I have given appropriate weight to the various elements. I am sure that the citation templates could be improved upon, but I lack the skill. I have removed a number of contentious uncited claims, and would naturally like to find sources for the unsourced uncontentious claims, such as the names of some of his immediate relatives. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:44, 23 February 2023 (UTC)