Talk:Salwa Judum/Archives/2014/August
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Attempt at compromise
There should be room in the article for the official government view and for dissenting views, either overall or in individual sections. In order to clarify what should be covered by those, I present the following subsections. Please expand as needed. — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 14:14, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Official Indian government view
"government" Vinter-light (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Official Chhattisgarh state government view
"government" Vinter-light (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Naxalite view
Mehrrunissa (talk · contribs) has described this as being the same as the Communist Party of India (Maoist) view. — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 14:49, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Anti-Naxalite view
Communist Party of India (Maoist) view
Mehrrunissa (talk · contribs) has described this as being the same as the Naxalite view. — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 14:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Human Rights Watch view
Salwa Judum view
"The Salwa Judum is a government made, funded, sourced private militia." Vinter-light (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
The Salwa Judum is a volunteer group of villagers, constituted with government support, to defend their persons and property from the depredations, brigandage, atrocities and massacres routinely perpetrated by Narco-Terrorist groups such as the Communist Party of India (Maoist).
In reality the Communist Party of India (Maoist), despite its political pretensions, is in reality a mafia of druglords. They seek to establish a reign of thuggery in the remotest areas of India so as to establish and control a system of producing and distributing heroin for profit.
Tellingly, the Communist Party of India (Maoist)'s most vengeful atrocities target those who give the lie to its claims of working for the betterment of the downtrodden... the downtrodden themselves. For example, villagers who seek to improve their own lot by taking up employment with the state, as policemen. One such villager, a tribal named Francis Induwar, was beheaded by the CPI (Maoist) in an attempt to terrorize others of his class who might dare to share in his ambition.
The Communist Party of India (Maoist) also takes it upon itself to murder any genuine social workers who might actually be contributing to the empowerment of the villagers, because such empowerment impacts the ability of the CPI (Maoist) to further its criminal agenda at their expense. A case in point is Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati, whose contributions to the welfare of villagers in Orissa caused him to be murdered by cadres of the CPI (Maoist).
Murder of Social Worker Saraswati
Given the atrocities habitually perpetrated on villagers by the Naxalites (or Communist Party of India (Maoist) as they prefer to be known), it was unsurprising that the villagers approached the government for assistance to defend themselves. Since the remote regions the villagers inhabited were difficult to police given the state's limited resources, the Chattisgarh government empowered the inhabitants of villages to protect themselves and their families by organizing and equipping them in groups known as Salwa Judum.
--Roshannara (talk) 00:06, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
National Human Rights Commission of India (NHRC) view
"The NHRC ... is made of police!!" Vinter-light (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
- The NHRC is not a committee is made of police as the user Vinter-light alleges. Check the facts before making libelous allegations.
- The National Human Rights Commission is an expression of India's concern for the protection and promotion of human rights. It came into being in October,1993.
- Is the Commission Autonomous?
- Yes, the autonomy of the Commission derives, inter-alia, from the method of appointing its Chairperson and Members, their fixity of tenure, and statutory guarantees thereto, the status they have been accorded andthe manner in which the staff responsible to the Commission - including its investigative agency - will be appointed and conduct themselves. The financial autonomy of the Commission is spelt out in Section 32 of the Act.
- The Chairperson and Members of the Commission are appointed by the President on the basis of recommendations of a Committee comprising the Prime Minister as the Chairperson, the Speaker of Lok Sabha, the Home Minister, the leaders of the opposition in the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha and the Deputy Chairman of the Rajya Sabha as Members. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mehrrunissa (talk • contribs) 14:11, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
- 'NHRC has a police wing. "The Director General (Investigation) of the NHRC, perhaps inevitably, constituted a team consisting of three officers of the Indian Police Service (IPS) and other lesser police functionaries under his supervision." (http://www.epw.in/uploads/articles/12988.pdf) - I had provided this link' Vinter-light (talk) 14:24, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
- "The National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) is an independent commission with quasi-legal powers. Just because the commission reports goes against the group you support does not entitle you to cast suspicions on it." --Mehrrunissa (talk) 14:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
National Human Rights Commission of India (NHRC) report view
"The NHRC report does not talk about police atrocities, because the committee is made of police!!" "It further goes to say PUCL is a maoist affiliated organisation." Vinter-light (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Special Police Officers (SPOs) view
Village Defence Committees (VDCs) view
Forum for Fact-finding Documentation and Advocacy (FFDA) view
Asian Centre for Human Rights (ACHR) view
Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers's view
People's Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL) view
"The NHRC report ... further goes to say PUCL is a maoist affiliated organisation. This is as blatant a lie there can be! PUCL is a human rights organisation, its vice president Binayak Sen was in prison exactly because of this lie. Twenty four nobel laureates, the amnesty international, people all around the world poured down their protests. The state had no proof, I repeat, not a single proof to tie Binayak Sen to the maoists, and yet they kept him detained for a year!!!" Vinter-light (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
That the PUCL "human rights organization" was providing aid and comfort to the Communist Party of India (Maoist), a criminal group that wages war against the state in remote parts of India with the goal of dominating the production and distribution of narcotics, is beyond any doubt.
Binayak Sen was a terrorist sympathizer if not a terrorist himself. He aided, abetted and extended medical attention to terrorist mass-murderers like Narayan Sanyal of the CPI (Maoist), who had been injured waging war against the state in Chattisgarh in 2005. That in spite of the support he extended to a drug-dealing criminal and enemy of the Indian people, Binayak Sen remains out of jail and uncharged with any terrorist activity himself, is a testimony to the democratic and transparent nature of the Indian state.
--Roshannara (talk) 23:52, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Supreme Court of India view
Jan Jagran Abhiyan view
Twenty four nobel laureates view
"protests" that "PUCL" "vice president Binayak Sen was in prison exactly because of this lie" that "PUCL is a maoist affiliated organisation" with "no proof, I repeat, not a single proof to tie Binayak Sen to the maoists, and yet they kept him detained for a year!!!" Vinter-light (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Amnesty International view
"protests" that "PUCL" "vice president Binayak Sen was in prison exactly because of this lie" that "PUCL is a maoist affiliated organisation" with "no proof, I repeat, not a single proof to tie Binayak Sen to the maoists, and yet they kept him detained for a year!!!" Vinter-light (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
People all around the world view
"protests" that "PUCL" "vice president Binayak Sen was in prison exactly because of this lie" that "PUCL is a maoist affiliated organisation" with "no proof, I repeat, not a single proof to tie Binayak Sen to the maoists, and yet they kept him detained for a year!!!" Vinter-light (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
State of the article before 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I added a coupla references and removed the unreferenced tag Vikram boo! 12:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Please use NPOV and refs.-Bharatveer (talk) 05:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
This article is extremely biased and needs to be rewritten entirely. 21 November 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.1.178 (talk) 12:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes i agree,it seems like naxalite propaganda....```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Renaissance89man (talk • contribs) 03:15, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Since this may be controversial issue for many, reading Wikipedia:Controversial articles, and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, might help maintain right balance and avoiding controversy. Thanks! --Ekabhishek (talk) 14:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
"Vandalism
Noted Vandalism WP:Vandalism, removal of text and adding inflammatory comments without suitable references without consideration to WP:NPOV by various users, (see history)though thankfully BOTS had removed most of them.
Please do not add any random stuff without suitable/ verifiable references, and avoid libelious statements. Thanks!" --Ekabhishek (talk) 06:57, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
- "this article reads like marxist propaganda
- Needs to be rewritten pretty much entirely. Until then, reader beware!" --86.135.181.189 (talk) 17:39, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
- "I suspect these edits are done [by] government agents, trying to control free information even on the internet." Vinter-light (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Vinter-light
'The users "Barakabless", "Agarbatti", "Vinter-light" have following the same pattern of deleting large chunks of text and references. This leads me to suspect that they are the same person. ... Now the same user Barakabless", "Agarbatti", "Vinter-light" should stop making baseless allegations and stop converting this page into an maoist propaganda piece.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mehrrunissa (talk • contribs) 14:11, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
- "I am not agarbatti or barakabless." Vinter-light (talk) 14:24, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
- "Vinter-light you keep making baseless allegations again. The National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) is an independent commission with quasi-legal powers. Just because the commission reports goes against the group you support does not entitle you to cast suspicions on it.
- Going by your conduct the users agarbatti or barakabless are your sock puppets who have vandalized other wiki pages related to maoists." --Mehrrunissa (talk) 14:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
view
Dissenting view by x
Dissenting view by y
Discussion of compromise
Jeff thanks for stepping in to stop the vandalism being done by one user and his sock puppets. --Mehrrunissa (talk) 14:42, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Just to clarify Naxalite and Communist Party of India (Maoist) are the same, so having two sub sections for the same party might not be useful. --Mehrrunissa (talk) 14:42, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
- Please note that in the appropriate sections above. — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 14:46, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Please note the wiki on Naxalite has been repeatedly purged of large amount of text and references by "Barakabless" http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Naxalite&action=history --Mehrrunissa (talk) 14:42, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
- This compromise section can be used to discuss article Naxalite, too. I have requested discussion of compromise here on Talk:Naxalite. — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 14:56, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I suspect one user and his sock puppets are conducting a campaign of purging text realated to the maoists. The wiki page on Maoist has also be vandalised by user "Barakabless" http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Communist_Party_of_India_(Maoist)&action=history --Mehrrunissa (talk) 14:42, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
- This compromise section can be used to discuss article Communist Party of India (Maoist), too. I have requested discussion of compromise here on Talk:Communist Party of India (Maoist). — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 14:56, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Note the following deletion of text and references by user "Barakabless" on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India_(Maoist)
Using cannibalism to strike terror among tribals
In a bid to terrorise villagers last August, a Maoist killed a man and ate his flesh in full view of the public in Malkangiri district of Orissa. Superintendent of Police Satish Kumar Gajbhiye said the incident, which took place at Bandiguda, on August 14, 2007, came to light only on Sunday, during a community policing programme. “The villagers told me that Bhagat, commander of the Paplur Dalam, killed Mukunda Madhi in public view and ate his flesh to terrorise others,” he told PTI on the phone. Mukunda’s hapless family was among the onlookers, none of whom opened his mouth for fear of his life, Mr. Gajbhiye said.[1]
A cannibal act to strike terror http://www.thehindu.com/2008/01/15/stories/2008011559051600.htm
This is just an example of how people associated with maoists are going around deleting information that show the cruel deeds of maoists, and then they call me a government agent. How fair is this accusation, you decide.
The maoists claim to fight for rights of villagers but the reality is opposite of their propaganda. In the above article they are killing villagers and eating their flesh to terrorize them into submission. These people have even surpassed terrorist groups like al-qaeda in their terrorizing tactics.
The maoists also claim to fight for the tribals but the salwa judum consists mostly of tribal. Then why are the maoists killing the tribals. In reality the tribals are being oppressed by the maoists and have no recourse but to fight back with anything they have. You may note in the picture of the salwa judum member carrying bows and arrows, attached to this wiki. The maoists are known to be armed with guns. Inspite of such a huge mis-match between their weaponry the tribals joined the salwa judum to fight back proving they are not willing to terrorized by the maoists.
Anyone with a fair and open mind will come to the conclusion that the references and text deleted by "Vinter-light" and his sock puppets "Barakabless", "Agarbatti", should be reverted to a fair and neutral POV.
Thank you. --Mehrrunissa (talk) 15:56, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Since compromise on Naxalite article is being discussed here allow me to post some articles on them.
This is an investigative report from an independent news channel. Reveals the forcible use of children by naxals also referred to as Maoists. So there is no doubt that maoists and naxals are the same group and regarding their use of children.
Innocence lost: Naxals brainwash children 10 Oct 2009, 1031 hrs IST
The government may have tightened the screws against the Maoists, but in areas of Chhattisgarh the Red Army is a law unto themselves. TIMES NOW reports of how Maoists in the forests of Chhattisgarh are brainwashing children into joining the red fold.
Even as the sun beats down on the forests of Chhattisgarh, hidden in the midst of the dense foliage is something more ominous. Twelve-year-old children are being brainwashed and christened into the deadly Naxal fold. Innocence has been stolen by the barrel of a Naxal gun, leaving villagers with no choice but to give in.
TIMES NOW's camera's travelled into the dense Gangulur forests, around 785 kms south of Chhattisgarh’s capital of Raipur, only to fund a Naxal initiation ceremony or 'Bal Sangram'. The ceremony welcomes young blood to fight for the Naxal cause.
Those who refuse to budge, lose their livelihood or worse -- pay with their lives, with the surrounding mountainous terrain providing an apt camouflage for the red army to carry out their rein of terror. The Naxalites are forcing peace loving tribals to abandon their livelihood and take up the gun instead, a move which will surely raise some worry for the government.
http://www.timesnow.tv/Innocence-lost-Naxals-brainwash-children/articleshow/4329309.cms
If members are curious to know how the naxals/maoist deal with children then they will further shocked to know that children have been massacred by naxal/maoist.
Maoists kill 16 including five children in Bihar First Published : 02 Oct 2009 08:46:00 AM IST
PATNA: At least 50 Maoist guerrillas attacked a Bihar village and gunned down 16 people, including five children, in what appeared to be a dispute over land, police said Friday.
The incident took place late Thursday in Amausi village in Khagaria district, about 200 km north of Patna.
Villagers told police that the guerrillas had tied the hands of the victims before shooting them dead.
"Over 50 armed Maoist rebels attacked Amausi village and shot dead 16 villagers, including five children," Deputy Superintendent of Police Ajay Pandey said, adding that it appeared to be over a land dispute but that the police were still investigating.
"All senior district officials are camping in the village and security forces have been deployed. The Special Task Force along with district police have launched combing operations against Maoists in Khagaria," Pandey added.
Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar condemned the incident and asked top officials of the state administration to probe into it.
"It is a shocking incident and should be condemned by one and all," Nitish Kumar said, while announcing compensation of Rs.150,000 to the families of each victim.
He said Deputy Chief Minister Sushil Kumar Modi and Director General of Police Anand Shankar would visit the village later Friday.
The incident prompted opposition Lok Janshakti Party chief Ram Vilas Paswan to demand Nitish Kumar's resignation.
These are the acts which have forced tribals to join forces and build salwa judum.
Even after such barbaric and unforgivable acts against innocent children and unarmed people, some sock puppets are calling naxals/maosits are rebels which is a real shame. These people can best be described as cold blooded killers and terrorists. --Mehrrunissa (talk) 17:18, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Please allow to me post another article on the success and praise for the good work the SPO's have earned. The SPO's in the state of chattisgarh are grouped under salwa judum.
Chidambaram all praise for SPOs 8 Jan 2009, 0550 hrs IST, ET Bureau
NEW DELHI: Settling the controversy generated by his recent statement in Parliament disfavouring law enforcement by ‘nonstate actors’ — interpreted by many as a disapproval of Salwa Judum — home minister P Chidambaram on Wednesday praised the role of special police officers (SPOs) in fighting Naxalism and called for their appointment “wherever required.”
The home minister’s backing for SPOs is certain to silence critics of Salwa Judum, mostly bleeding heart liberals, who have been demanding disbanding of the movement citing alleged human rights violations by SPOs appointed from among tribals who have come out against Left-wing extremism.
SPOs have played a useful role and should be appointed wherever required, Mr Chidambaram said in his concluding remarks at a meeting of chief ministers of seven Naxalismhit states chaired by him here on Wednesday.
Chhattisgarh has successfully used SPOs, duly appointed under the Police Act, to lead and guide the anti-Naxal forces during operations in the inhospitable jungles of Bastar and also to keep guard at relief camps housing Salwa Judum families. These SPOs, both ex-Naxalites and those drawn from Salwa Judum camps and trained by the police, are paid an honorarium of Rs 3,300 per month, with government of India contributing Rs 1,800 and the state police pitching in with another Rs 1,500. Jharkhand is another state that has been successfully using SPOs to counter Leftwing extremists.
Mr Chidambaram, who heard the chief ministers patiently on the extent of Naxal problem in their respective states and the counter-steps being taken by them, stressed upon the need for effective joint operations by the concerned States to deal with Naxal elements operating in inter-State border areas. He called for training of the police in both jungle warfare and offered to augment the Centre’s training capacities to meet the states’ demand for training their intelligence personnel. Also insisting on the development aspect, Mr Chidambaram called for speedy construction of roads in the affected districts.
At the meeting, National Security Adviser M K Narayanan expressed concern at the shift in CPI(Maoist) tactics from guerrilla warfare to military operations, and insisted that the police in the affected states would have to upgrade their training to match the new capabilities of the extremists.
The meeting saw the chief ministers seeking more Central forces and funds to take on the Naxalites. Chhattisgarh chief minister Raman Singh briefed the home minister in detail on the counter-operations — he claimed to have liberated nearly 25,000 sq km of the total 75,000-sq km area under Naxal domination — and sought to clear at least 10% more area with each passing year. However, he said the Central forces and STF of the Chhattisgarh police were already overstretched in carrying out both area domination and intelligence-based surgical operations, and it would not be possible to move deeper into the Naxal-infested forests without force reinforcements. Mr Singh said the police strength was already being augmented.
Bihar chief minister Nitish Kumar said that the counter-Naxal strategy would have to be specific to each of the affected states. While the relatively less violence-hit Bihar could address socio-economic problems to tackle the root causes of Left-wing extremism, Chhattisgarh , which was already in the vortex of Naxalite violence, would have to fight the extremists before it could attend to socio-economic development.
This goes to show why maoists and their sock puppets are worried about salwa judum and are vandalising this page. --Mehrrunissa (talk) 17:59, 11 October 2009 (UTC)