Talk:Salix martiana

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Hi there, thanks for your contribution but this appears to be a synonym of Salix humboldtiana var. martiana

Hughesdarren (talk) 00:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@Plantdrew: Hi, what would the the most appropriate action for this article? Regards. Hughesdarren (talk) 00:43, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@Hughesdarren: I think turning the article into a redirect and copying the material over to the older article would be best. follow the advice below. Got a bit confused.sry.ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 02:48, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@Hughesdarren:,I guess move to Salix humboldtiana var. martiana. I'm not very keen on having articles for varieties or subspecies, especially if the prevailing alternative taxonomic position is not recognizing the var./subsp. as distinct at all. However, the prevailing alternative here seems to be recognizing as a full species. Tropicos lists 4 references since 2010 with two different groups of authors (one primarily from Brazil, the other affiliated with Missouri Botanical Garden) that treat it as a species. POWO's treatment as a variety is based on two publications from 2008 and 2017 that both had F. Zuloaga as an author.

The article isn't a sub-stub. I think it's worth having at some title.

I am becoming somewhat disllusioned with POWO, and had hoped World Flora Online would be viable by now (background if you didn't know: POWO is a product solely of Kew Gardens, and WFO is a global multi-institutional collaboration that Kew is participating in). POWO has a tendency to lump that I have noticed for North American and Australian taxa where N.Am./AU based botanists are more splitty (and Salix martiana is South American).

Salix martiana is linked from willow and List of Salix species as well as Iquitos várzea; "List of Salix species" apparently follows POWO as of September 2020. POWO doesn't seem to be particularly stable lately. My recommendation is to keep this article at the current title. If somebody wants to overhaul "List of Salix species" to conform to POWO's current treatment this article could be moved (with ensuing changes to at least Salix humboldtiana). "only consistently hermaphroditic willow species" is a pretty significant claim for Salix martiana if that is true.Plantdrew (talk) 03:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

We agree. I considered Salix humboldtiana v. martiana as the title for this wikipedia page, but then I noticed that Salix martiana seems to be a preferred term in the botanic literature. Also experts don't seem to refer to Salix martiana as the 'pencil willow' which is the common term for Salix humboldtiana.

There is not much known about the sources of species diversity in Salicaceae. Salix subgenera are difficult to classify. One recent attempt was a ‘spectacular failure’ due to a speculated radiation of the subgenera Vetrix and Chamaetia.

It seems likely that there will be major reclassifications in Salicaceae as more species are classified and as modern machine learning methods are applied to construction of these phylogenetic trees. sbelknap (talk) 03:44, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

In general, I agree with the comment that implies grouping cultivars/varieties under the species.

In this case, the unusual flowering pattern of this clade may have been the reason for designation as a separate species. sbelknap (talk) 03:53, 17 October 2023 (UTC)