Talk:Sailor Mercury/Archive 1

Ami's Name

Ami's name is often mistakenly assumed to mean "friend of water." The true meanings of the kanji in her name are:

-水- mizu- water -野- no- field

-亜- a- Asian -美- mi- beauty

Thanks! :)

By the way, I found the meaning of each kanji here: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html.

-Feiriri 19:11 11 March 2006

• Hm. My research tells me the kanji for the "a" part means "secondary". Danny Lilithborne 00:19, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Also, the "no" in the Inner Senshi names does not mean "of", since it's written in the kanji that means "field". This is a common misconception that some fans vigorously fight about. Danny Lilithborne 00:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

--Interesting. According to Jim Breen's online Japanese dictionary, the kanji read as "a" can mean "Asia; rank next; come after; -ous."

Glad to see somebody else bothered to look up the kanji for her name, though! :D --Feiriri 00:31, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

• I try, although I've jumped to conclusions before (my Japanese is so rusty it is embarassing). I wasn't aware that the kanji could mean "Asia"; the other possible meanings are interesting. I do wish Takeuchi-sensei would have just stuck to hiragana for the given names and made life easier on us poor lost Americans ;) Danny Lilithborne 00:46, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

It really only means "Asia" because it used to be common practice to spell out certain names in phonetically-chosen kanji (亜細亜) rather than the modern convention of katakana (アジア). The meaning "Asia" then filtered over to the kanji 亜. (Similarly, the 米 from 亜米利加 was taken to form 米国 -- because 亜 was already in use.) In 亜美, a common spelling of あみ, the 亜 can probably be taken as nothing more than a sound. (See Ateji -- or better yet, Kanji#Other_readings, which has this exact example!)

That said, interpreting Mizuno as "of water" is quite reasonable, kanji notwithstanding -- especially given the pattern in the other characters' names. However, Ami only means "friend" in French, as far as I know. --Aponar Kestrel (talk) 08:12, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

And on that note, I've removed the 'name meaning' entry from the various Statistics sections. Either the meaning of the name is important enough to write a paragraph or two about (which in some cases has been done), or it's just not notable. --Aponar Kestrel (talk) 09:18, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Disputed content

She is sometimes unfairly compared to Kaiou Michiru because of their superficial water-based powers, which are actually quite different by Asian Elemental reckoning. ... wait, what? Since when? Can anyone justify this? --Aponar Kestrel 05:30, 2004 Jul 31 (UTC)

... apparently not. Deleted. --Aponar Kestrel (talk) 00:43, 2004 Aug 23 (UTC)

I've never even heard them compared...that one is new to me and I've been in the fandom since 1998... do we need that paragraph? --Hitsuji Kinno 16:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Most of the stupid stuff in the comparison has already been deleted--it used to be long. I think a bit of clarification on why there are two water-based Senshi is okay. --Masamage 16:54, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Screencaps and WikiRules

This page is in violation of Wikipedia rules - especially since we want to avoid copyright infringement. One screencap per article is allowed. I suggest that some of them are deleted. strideranne 23:07, 1 April 2006 (UTC)Strideranne

However, note also the third guideline which I quote:

The amount of copyrighted work used should be as little as possible. Low-resolution images should be used instead of high-resolution images (especially images that are so high-resolution that they could be used for piracy). Do not use multiple images or media clips if one will serve the purpose adequately.

The images are of low quality, and fit the fair use guideline. The only one that could be removed with some argument is Image:Mercury-pc.jpg, since there is already one with her sailor suit. -- ReyBrujo 23:17, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Princess Mercury

Can anyone give any info on the royals of the planets, including Princess Mercury? --User:Angie Y.

IQ

Is there any hard evidence for a 300 IQ being impossible? SWalkerTTU 02:54, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I suppose technically it isn't, but as far as I know no IQ test has a scale that goes up that high. That said, that sentence is ambiguously phrased, and I'm not I'm not familiar enough with the manga to say whether or not it's actually a paraphrase from it.  –Aponar Kestrel (talk) 07:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The only mention I see so far in the manga is in Act 2 where Ami's walking through the school halls and all the kids are commenting on her:

"Have you seen the results of the test?"
"I did, I did! There's a genius in class five!"
"Mizuno Ami!"
"Full marks in every subject. She's the best in the country!"
"They say she has a 300 IQ!"
"She's not human!"
"Huh?" says Usagi. "A genius?"

-- RattleMan 07:18, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

(*snip*)  –Aponar Kestrel (talk) 07:38, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

This is probably because Takeuchi said she wanted to originally make Ami a robot (Volume 3 of the Shinzoubon Punch!) until Osabu objected. She also went to lengths in the Black Moon Arc to establish they weren't 100% human, for example the stint with the dousing bit. This fizled. The only one who got to keep these "special" powers was Mamoru, who displayed Psychmetry (unnamed) in the anime. But if you notice, it's a rumor, and while slightly supported by Luna's stats, I don't think it keeps up for the rest of the manga 100%.--Hitsuji Kinno 03:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I always just took it as gossip. --Masamage 07:30, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not so sure. Her bio on the DVDs (the movies for example) says that she does have an IQ of 300. Maybe as far as the anime is concerned, this is a fact. -サターン・ヨッシー ^{HAPPY HALLOWEEN} 07:39, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Foreign names really needed?

Please discuss here whether to include foreign names when they do not match the english name. Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 03:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Profile

I made a lot of changes here, mostly just rewording things. It could stand to be reorganized, too, but I'll leave that alone for the moment. I'd be happy to explain any of the things I changed, or alter them to make them clearer.--Masamage 04:33, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Merges

Does anyone actually object to merging 'Princess Mercury' and 'Dark Mercury' with this article? There seems to be no discussion of it anywhere, but it seems like a great idea to me. --Masamage 04:33, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

• I don't object, but I'm actually a little irritated that the "Princess (planet)" articles were created, and then a merge template was immediately slapped on by the author. Wouldn't it have been easier to just write a "Princess (planet)" section from the beginning? In any case, I don't think there's enough on the Princesses to warrant much mention anywhere. Danny Lilithborne 05:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Was that how it went? How bizarre! I'll give it a week, then, for someone to complain (just because that seems polite), and if they don't, I'll check all the other discussion boards and start merging. --Masamage 05:41, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

No complains from me. Better to have few articles with good development than a lot of stubs around talking about basically the same character. -- ReyBrujo 20:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Now, here's another thought. A lot of the information about the princesses is exactly the same for each one. Maybe there should be a single page for all the princesses, which the senshi pages would link to, and the individual princess pages would redirect to? That actually seems a little tidier. Heck, it could even be a part of the Silver Millennium page. --Masamage 19:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay. I haven't started on the Princesses page yet, but Dark Mercury has now been merged in. I brought the links from that page, too, and turned the original Dark Mercury into a redirect to the appropriate section of this article. However, I let the redirect keep its categories, so that Dark Mercury will continue to appear in those listings. --Masamage 20:33, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

You can't redirect to a section in a page, only to a page. Remove the categories and templates, and modify the template to remove the redirects. -- ReyBrujo 02:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Regrettably, I don't really understand what you mean! I won't feel encroached upon if you help, though. I like learning by example. ^^ --Masamage 06:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Basically, #REDIRECT [[Ami_Mizuno#Dark_Sailor_Mercury]] does not redirect to a section, because that is a limitation with the current Wiki software. In other words, that is the same as #REDIRECT [[Ami Mizuno]], so don't worry about redirecting to sections. -- ReyBrujo 02:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Schools

This page contains some totally useless information, namely the stuff about the schools Ami attends. That shouldn't go here, but it does seem like it ought to go somewhere. Maybe there should be an article about the world Sailor Moon happens in? It would have little sections for stuff like the high school, the arcade, Galaxy TV, etc. --Masamage 19:02, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Name meanings

For that matter, there could also be a seperate artice for the meanings of the characters' name kanji, since it's too big a dispute to be on the individual pages themselves. I'm all about the side-articles today! XD --Masamage 19:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Princesses Article

Just so you all know, I've made a new article at Princesses (Sailor Moon). The merge notices are gone now, because that group of stubs has been cleared up. Now that it's done, please feel free to edit and cite to your heart's content! ^_^ -Masamage 20:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Consistency: Mercury's Profile as a template

Because of the problem of consistency between Senshi profiles, this article has been proposed as the base profile for all the others. Any changes to the general format of Senshi articles should be made here, and then copied to all the others. This plan is very preliminary however, so for more information or to make a comment, please see the appropriate section of the series Talk page, so that everyone else can see what you have to say! Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Masamage (talk • contribs) .

Oops, knew I was forgetting something. Thanks for signing it for me. --Masamage 04:47, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

There, just replace the unsigned with your sign :-P -- ReyBrujo 04:52, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Luna and the Princess

Can someone verify that Luna actually said anything in the anime about Mercury or the others being a princess? I'm pretty sure that was NA dub... I did add in the exact Act number and the version of the manga. The manga's acts between original and shinzoubon are different. This is in accordance to the decision made at the project. I also added the fact the Princess form was from the manga originally. If no one can cite the information about Luna down to episode, I vote for deletion of that tag-on.--Hitsuji Kinno 03:12, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I think your changes look good; now they just need to be applied to the other Senshi. A preliminary Google-search through Hitoshi Doi doesn't turn up any hits for "princesses" or the other few things I tried, so for now, I'm going to comment that bit out. I think we can leave it in this article in comment form (since it's the template, and just in case there is a source), but we can remove it completely from the other bios in the meantime. Good catch! :) --Masamage 09:04, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Ami's driver's license?

I've removed all but the first sentence of this:

"In the live-action drama, Ami is especially shy, and usually wears glasses while in public (even though she doesn't need them). However, in the DVD exclusive final hour long episode "Special Act". Taking place four years later, Ami's driver's license is shown and has a note that she does need glasses to drive."

I did it mostly because it seems fancrufty, but maybe it's not. I'm willing to have my mind changed. However, I looked up a bunch of stuff on the Special Act and didn't find a single mention of this. (I've seen the series, but not this particular act.) Can it be described a little better? Or perhaps sourced? That seems like a very small detail that may be unconfirmable except by somebody who can read Japanese. Again, I could easily be wrong. --Masamage 00:49, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm still in the process of watching all the acts for the first time and I'm only just over half way through. I'll have the info soon enough. Or, you can download that act from the Oracle's website. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 01:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler Warnings?

I think it's missing the regular spoiler warnings... it might be better to make the spoiler warning more exapansive. I'm pretty sure that Princess Mercury is a spoiler... but how to divide it... --Hitsuji Kinno 02:53, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Great point. I think a good standard would be to plop that spoiler warning right after the lead section (like in Minako's article), and put the endspoiler tag just after the variations. --Masamage 07:41, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Items

It seemed to be agreed that individual items pertaining to the Sailor woould go into the section. Thus far, I've been thinking we should do it like Chibiusa Which has it before the Senshi Powers. If this is OK, I'll start adding them in. I anally have them all listed on my own website (along with the first appearances, but I'll be dropping that).

I also added a proper references section to all pages and these have to be reworked in. --Hitsuji Kinno 21:03, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Statistics

Since most of the pages have the formatting sorted out, or about to, I'd also suggest cleaning up the statistics sections on them. As they stand now, they are jumbled up in the most unpleasant manner--that is a mixture of original, dub, toyboxes, game book and manga. While there *are* statistics from the manga directly referenced, it is very, very hard to separate them. In addition all the pages seem to have some sort of ugly fan speculation and changing of the categories. How to deal with this awful mess needs to be sorely addressed if we are going to get any sort of upgrade to GA. Or at least as our honor as fans, this should be fixed. I can tell you right now which belong to what and where it came from, such as the heights came from a Sailor Moon book published by Kodansha titled Sailor Moon Speculate, which is on my shelf, which in turn was referenced by A Sailor Moon game book (which took heavily from this aforementioned book) published in the US, which was in turn referenced by the Ken Arommdee Sailor Moon FAQ which also cited an anime book. However, the heights were never officially referenced manga or anime, within the actual series. So that kind of thing needs to be sorted out on what goes where and if this part counts as part of the Wikipedia rules. If this would help to separate things, I have everything ready to go (Back when I was fanatical and I saw people mixing up profile info I did this separation meticulously--yes it was sick.).--Hitsuji Kinno 21:03, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Statistics Part II

I'm going to reference all of the ones from the manga, and then all from the anime. And then the misc ones. because as it stands the stats are far, far off from where they should be and DO NOT conform to the manga nor the anime, and have EXTRA stuff from other sources. Sorting out which is which is part of our job as makers of this page. So I will be adding more referencing from which is from where because this is important to know to meet the specific requirements of the page--separation of versions. --Hitsuji Kinno 00:24, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Awesome work! (Just don't reference every single line. ^^;) --Masamage 00:26, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Then they should have sub headings if you are going to argue this... which can look messy too. The references from the Japanese are the following: Volume 10, Volume 14, Volume 5 (for the swimming), and then Sailor Moon Speculate and the Irwin Toy boxes. These should be marked. We have options here. If you DO NOT want to separate it should say something like, from the manga volume 10 unless otherwise marked (or from this source with the superscript.). The thing is many of these repeat too. So what do you want to do? I deleted the "fan" added categories and verified it against the manga (reading the Japanese and translating for people out there.) I can convet to the second suggestion after I get the rest of the references for the rest. I have all books I mentioned here and the source for the ideas behind some of them. The time-honored tradition of "adding" from the manga and anime comes from ken Aromdee when he added brownnosing to the list of Usagi traits. Oh, I can also delete all non-manga and non-offical stats which means heigt gets deleted with eye color, hair color, etc and ONLY go for what's in the manga. The ONLY official height in the SM lore is strictly Usagi from an anime art book with the note "still growing" (though the manga and anime disputes this with Neo Queen Serenity) and this even may include the odango according to the Materials Collection...--Hitsuji Kinno 00:32, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I have to run off... but I left the remainder of the sources comments and deleted the fan-added stat. That should go into the introduction of the character, not in the stats which should be official. Heights are highly debatable because no official source released them beyond Kodansha (Sailor Moon Speculate, super rare and very unknown), which only printed from an author who is NOT Takeuchi or anyone from the anime. (Kodansha also printed some SM doujinshi, so you can see where I'm going with this.)

Irwin Toy Boxes Anyone have a place they find their Irwin Toyboxes? Anyone? I tried on the website, didn't have it, I tried finding scans of them, but the site I found them from was gone... I'd like them to finish the references. You don't even have to add the reference yourself, just put the name of the site here with said scans. Last resort will be asking people for the scans.--Hitsuji Kinno 15:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Section for First Appearance Would it be more effective to put the first appearances in the stats? So instead of it written out it would be like this: Manga Appearance: Act 2 Anime Appearance: Episode 8 NA Dub appearance: Episode 2 PGSM Appearance: Act 2

OR that could go into our new SM description box... which would streamline things considerably. Thus Appearance would be like this: First Appearance

Manga

Anime

North American Dub

PGSM

Doing that would allow each character with a large page to have that stuff mentioned... for Supporting characters, leave that section off and then mention it in the profile, sentence form. (Multiple character pages, like the Starlights, etc would have to be negotiated.)

Thoughts? Objections? Problems? --Hitsuji Kinno 15:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

They could go in the info-boxes, I suppose. I like that idea, actually, though I'm afraid it might make the boxes too long, vertically. I wish I knew how to mock one up...maybe I'll experiment with that. --Masamage 18:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Technicalities Back when I was insane very, very dedicated as a fan, I categorized everything into MADC format (Manga Anime Dub Correct). Looking back, I realize that Irwin, i.e. the source of the NA stats named their stats differently from the original Japanese. For The typical Irwin Box had Name, Senshi Name, Strong Point, Favorite Subject, Worst Subject, Likes, Dislikes, Favorite Animal. The problem is that these greatly differ from the Japanese. For example, "Has Trouble With" for Sailor Jupiter would be airplanes, whereas the NA adaption said "Cheaters". (Yeah, Cheaters has no support in the dub whatsoever, but this is a toy company we're dealing with.) So should these things be separated out or just referenced when someone coughs up scans of the toyboxes? Because for the nitpicky super anal fan it's not correct... I'm afraid too that the stats may get too long if we separate out anime, manga and dub... Thankfully PGSM never released official stats.

BTW, I have First Appearance on my stat pages. O.o;; I was nuts. I forgot those were on there. --Hitsuji Kinno 03:00, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of our info box... Has anyone actully started makeing one??

References

I cleaned up the Music section to be more bullet-like. I think the only thing we need are a sick amount of references for this page. I'm missing a few. I don't know where the dub songs are listed--does someone know if they are listed on Amazon? After that obscure facts should be marked with their respective series, and then I'd say this is a good template to work on, clearing us to do our character boxes, and then spreading our evilness wise knowledge everywhere. --Hitsuji Kinno 01:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Princess image

Is that really necessary? If we have one for Ami, we have to have them for all the others.

I've been meaning for ages to work Image:SenshiPrincesses.jpg into Silver Millennium. Perhaps it's time. --Masamage 23:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Fixing...

Ami's father, a painter who effectively abandoned his family to do his work, is only known by in the paintings (in place of postcards or letters) he sends. [citation needed] Ami seems to be vaguely appreciative towards him in the anime, but resentful in the manga. She is one of the few girls in the series whose family situation is explicitly mentioned in the anime; In the manga, her family is revealed to be rich when she tests the strength of a sword by cutting a diamond in half; when the other girls freak out, Ami tranquilizes them saying that it's not the only diamond that Mizuno-sensei possesses.

Oh God... First sentence is wrong. Her father and mother divorced. And I'm not sure you could say abandoned when he sends her cards and paintings. Divorce in Japan is considered rare. (Secret Life of Mariko) so a divorce would be considered disgraceful in many ways. This may be why Ami resents her father and mother for being selfish, as illustrated in volume 13. However Ami of the anime seems to appreciate him and even identify with him, which is demonstrated through the episode where she was playing music/ writing lyrics. In the manga Ami and her mother live in a big condo with marble floors which is exorbitantly expensive in Japan. (Takeuchi of the time noted that she had marble floors that always got scratched up.) While they broke a dimond the girls didn't freak out. And I don't think "tranquilize" is the exact word you want when you have the fact her mother is a doctor a few paragraphs earlier. Pacify might be better. Freak out sounds a bit too much like a teenager wrote that bit. Panic might be more neutral... Would it be OK to make these changes an add in the sick amount of references for these changes? Any objections? --Hitsuji Kinno 03:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Beautiful. You have my blessings. --Masamage 04:45, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Spaces in Japanese names

Is this a wikipedia thing because there are no spaces between words in Japanese, only sentences when it's written horizontally... If this is a wikipedia thing, please tell me, 'cause as a Japanese language student I find it annoying and ethnocentric. People can figure out which is which without much trouble. And if it's really that much of an issue we're discussing having the definition of the name in the profile, so it eliminates issues around it.--Hitsuji Kinno 16:27, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

"Ethnocentric" is a bit strong. This article is explicitly intended for English-speaking readers. That said, do what you think is best. --Masamage 22:34, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

The names used to be there and were taken out for, among other things, being excessively trivial. But I have no real opinion on the matter of definition names. I do, however, think it's important to use English order on the English Wikipedia. Danny Lilithborne 22:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the names ought to be translated, just not in the Statistics section (since they require a bit of explanation). And yeah, definitely English order when using English; the question is about the kanji themselves, which are always left in their own order, and which don't generally have spaces between them. --Masamage 23:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it was the nihonji I was talking about (Japanese writing). I took out the spaces. As My cultural anthropology teacher said, there is nothing wrong with being ethnocentric, you have to be in some sense--there is no way you can escape your culture. She even said that the most common thing to happen is latent embarrassment among cultural anthropologists as they realized they goofed and horribly. Embarrassment is part f it. The difference though is that once you are faced with this latent embarrassment and the words, "Well you never asked" you have a choice to fix it or to live with it. In this case what's ethnocentric from my POV as a cultural anthropology student is the thought that all languages have spaces, if it doesn't have a space, it must be a mistake! This is ethnocentric and there is nothing wrong with it. One just has to be aware that not all languages have spaces, commas, or even periods. ^^;; Sorry for the rant, but I hope that makes it a bit more clear. *Debating double major in cultural anthropology and Computer Information Systems* Anyway, Ethnocentric isn't bad, ego-ethnocentric is. (Where you think you are the only culture on the planet or should be... *cough*creepy*cough* Think Nazis)--Hitsuji Kinno 02:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Read the WP:MOS-JA for all of the wonderful "Wikipedia things" regarding the Japanese language. The only comments on spacing is on interwiki links. But it's implied that you can use spaces in the article. Spaces are editor's choice, I think. I don't use them because I do a lot of seiyu translations from ja wiki and it makes interwiki linking more of a pain. Others use them to indicate the proper place to split a name, which is not always 100% clear. --Kunzite 04:49, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Generally it's much harder to type a space in Nihonji than it is in romaji. That's because if you are using romaji input the space bar stands for changing it over to kanji, not a space. Spaces in Japanese don't really make sense. (Technically Korean can delete spaces too, but it's had a western influence) That's because of the markers for various parts of speech "wa" "o" "de" etc. That's why in Volume 11 Sailor Chibi Moon is listed as sailorchibimoon. (no such thing as caps in Nihonji either...). So for Romaji, yes, spaces make sense, because you're transliterating into another alphabet, but for nihonji it doesn't make sense to. If the person can't read Japanese then putting a space in the middle isn't going to help their plight any. So I agree with you on that basis. Despite that I did ask.--Hitsuji Kinno 07:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Attacks references

I added the missing references. Any that I didn't directly have, I put a citation needed next to. I just want to know how we should handle attacks. We can put the specific volume/act/episode they came from in the references to cite them, we can leave them alone (no citation), or choose to get them from a website. Whatever we choose it should be consistent page to page. However, I'd prefer to cite them somehow in some way. For websites: Ken Aromdee's FAQ and Hitoshi Doi for the anime. The manga I'm not sure, though Jackie Chiang might have them. I have the list for all of the first appearances of the attacks on my own website, so this won't be a problem to directly cite them. (I did them down to page number... so I have them.) I also have a few that The Oracle Missed or mis-listed. Attacks is under dispute, so it should be resolved. I wonder if we put a bit about her popularity in Japan with reference (the original liner notes had them), if this would then count as GA after all the references are put in.... --Hitsuji Kinno 17:37, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Automated Peer Review Suggestions

I found this new toy, an automated peer review bot, and I thought I'd try it out on the template articles. If the suggestions of the bot aren't appropriate, strike them out.  :) The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

• Per WP:CONTEXT and WP:MOSDATE, months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.
• Per WP:WIAFA, Images should have concise captions.
• Per WP:MOSNUM, there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of undefined, use undefined undefined, which when you are editing the page, should look like: undefined undefined.
• Per WP:MOSNUM, please spell out source units of measurements in text; for example, the Moon is 380,000 kilometres (240,000 mi) from Earth.
• Per WP:CONTEXT and WP:BTW, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006, but do not link January 2006.
• Generally, trivia sections are looked down upon; please either remove the trivia section or incorporate any important facts into the rest of the article.
• As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space inbetween. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2]
• Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Malkinann 00:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I fixed the references, the one date link we didn't need (the 1992 does not need to be linked in the hero box since it doesn't add to the article's understanding) fix the references, and made the measurements up to standard. I think the only thing we really need is a copy editor with an astounding amount of skills, which the articles said we could request? Elimination of repetition, etc should help. I'm not sure what the bot is looking for in the image captions... and I'm not quite sure how to *exactly* list the measurements, and I don't see trivia on this page, so anything else we need besides copyediting? I know a few references are missing, but I think I can fill in at least one. --Hitsuji Kinno 03:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the bot's complaining about the PGSM picture caption, and the trivia would be statistics. I've run the bot again, and struck out above the things it's not complaining about any more. Those extra things that it suggests seem to be exercises in improving your writing skills, which are worth a go.  ;) I know it's just a bot, but if we can clean things up to its liking, then we've got a better chance of impressing a real human.  ;) - Malkinann 03:54, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I fixed the footnotes, so it should see that. The caption on PGSM I fixed. I'm not sure what to do about the stats-- it's supposed to be a quick perusal through the character without having to read paragraphs about them. As supposed to fun facts to know and tell, which are what trivia are, and I would think would be the objection to trivia. The full dates it's complaining about are the footnote dates, but I don't see how that would enhance the context of the article by linking them. Japanese just *happen* to list the full dates for publication. If the citation text has no linking system within it, I don't see the point of linking it since I don't see how it would enhance anything about understanding who Ami is. Now the article needs copy editing... --Hitsuji Kinno 16:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I ran the bot for a third time and struck out some of the suggestions it doesn't bring up. I took the initiative to strike out the 'trivia' section, because it's obviously complaining about the Statistics section, which is absolutely essential.  ;) Sometimes when I've run the bot, it complains about captions that are perhaps too short, as well as too long... So you think the date linkages it's complaining about are the site access dates? The cite web templates link those automatically, though. Now, to the copyediting!  ;) If you read the suggestions of the bot, it gives some exercises and a really long essay... I had a read, but I'm still not that good. It's a bit of a challenge for yourself to improve your writing skills.. but if you look at Ami-chan, such a worthy cause.  ;) - Malkinann 21:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I think the full dates it's complaining about are in the footnotes, the book references, for example, the manga dates have a full date. But it's pretty pointless to go through the manga references and link the date within that template if the citation template doesn't automatically do it itself, and also by linking the dates in the citation template for books, it doesn't really enhance anything about the context of who the character is. It only enhances the understanding of the book being referenced itself... which I would think is a moot point, considering how there is a separate page for the manga and volume summaries which can easily go over the context for dates, etc. It's not really relevant to this particular article. Masamage said she'd do the copy editing. Hopefully it will be good enough that the bot doesn't complain... if not we can always do a formal request from the copy editing department to give it creditability so we can ignore the bot's request. =P --Hitsuji Kinno 22:05, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The bot is only a bot - its suggestions shouldn't be followed slavishly, but examined, and implemented or refuted as appropriate. I'll strike out the date thingie. Maybe the captions could be improved a bit, and a copyediting would be nice, but after that, I think we'll have dealt with all of the bot's suggestions. Then we can work out how to reference the attacks, and send it off to the nice people at GA. - Malkinann 22:25, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Toy boxes

Insane as I am, I got a reference thanks to bobagirl. =P. Goes to show you that persistence pays off. The scan for Mercury's box is here: http://www.bobagirl.com/lj/anime/bandaimercury.jpg It's not Irwin, but Bandai that put out the stats, I've put in a request for the rest of the Sailors. ^_^ Now, we should vote on how many of these Bandai toyboxes' stats should actually be put up. Some of them overlap or disagree... so any input? --Hitsuji Kinno 22:40, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Those girls are in some dire need of some anti-frizz shampoo... -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 03:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Too right. XD I notice that Usagi's says that her favourite food is PB&J - euwh! That just *has* to be a localisation. - Malkinann 05:13, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The dolls are ugly and they wonder why those didn't sell, but the Japanese ones did... you got to be kidding. One of my sources said Yay! They put out a Sailor Chibimoon doll, now she can look as ugly as the other ones do! (paraphrase) Not far from the truth... I also found an article about how the dolls flopped in the market, which was why I wanted to make a merchandise page... just so I could stick up that article =P I know how sick that is... --Hitsuji Kinno 03:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I would have actually considered collecting the dolls if they weren't so horrid looking. Why couldn't they have at least tried? -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 03:43, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

References needed pre-GA

I've put in a couple extra citation needed tags. "Amy Anderson" needs more explanation, as it would confuse non-fans. ("Two dub names??? WTH???") Denelson has found that the episode in question was Japanese Episode 41 (English Episode 39), but Sailor Moon Uncensored doesn't have a summary of that episode up yet. Maybe we can find another source for that? Most popular desperately needs citation - I've found this, which gives me the idea that maybe there are lists of 'fav anime girls' out there that we could cite properly? The 'variations' section runs the risk of reading like original research unless we find some citations. Attacks still needs citing, and so does the Seramyu songs section - unless the musicals themselves are our source?? :S I dunno. I've also found an excerpt from a new book called "Warriors of Legend: Reflections of Japan in Sailor Moon" which says that some of Ami's character is a commentary on how harsh the Japanese school system is. Interesting stuff. - Malkinann 05:13, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe Ami Anderson is lightly mentioned on Hitoshi Doi's website... I might be wrong, but I firmly remember a mention of it. OR we can just cite the episodes and leave it at that... Oh and I disagree with Warriors of Legend, even if one of my friends worked on it. ^^;; There are inaccuracies that need to be fixed. (like the personality description of Ami is off...) I highly doubt Ami was made to comment on the harshness of the school system, there are better characters and anime that *do* specifically go into that. For example, Rozen Maiden talks in great length about it. So I doubt that highly considering how Japanese treat such social issues. Reading The Secrets of Mariko is good for getting the differences in that. (I recommended that they read it through to my friend.) --Hitsuji Kinno 03:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I did a google search on Anderson in usagi.org and nothing about Ami came up - it was only seiyuu listings.  :( Now, this could just be the remnants of my senior English course combined with the head cold talking, but I've sort of got this idea rattling around in my head: "Even as Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon can be read as a Girl Power text by Western audiences, so too can Ami's character be read as a commentary on the school system.[cite]" And then we follow that up with something that says that no, Ami's deeper than that, and they're imagining it, and the alternative explanation is...[cite] And this 'commentary' that is percieved is quite possibly a Western invention.[cite] But even if other anime treats the Japanese school system in great detail, wouldn't Sailor Moon predate them? As for The Secrets of Mariko, I'll have to take your word for it - none of the libraries near me carry it. - Malkinann 04:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Mariko-Japanese-Family-Vintage/dp/0679772626 you can buy it there. I have it kicking around because I love citing it. It's a good look in the life of a Japanese woman in the late 1990's, which would kind of overlap with Sailormoon lore, which makes it even a better resource. It's kind of useless for anything after that date because of the crash of the stock market in the late 1990's, but for the purposes of Sailor Moon in context of Japanese culture of the time it's pretty good. Actually, there are quite a few anime and manga that predate SM that deal with the issue more thoroughly... Rozen Maiden was the one that came to mind because that was one of the recent anime I watched. Love Hina was before that...(the majority of the failures happen among guys in anime, partially due to the heavy pressure to find a job and the ladder system in Japan from school to job...) Before SM... hmm... *sighs* I need Fredrick Schodt's Manga! Manga! to jog my memory... I'm guessing that it would be either a game-based shounen manga (like Love Hina), or a shoujo manga with a central male character. There are manga, anime and dramas that deal with the issue on a per-episode basis instead of the whole arc. It's actually a common theme to talk about exams, etc. Kodomo no Omocha used it for several episodes. Hime-chan in Hime-chan no Ribbon was concerned about passing her exams and was pleased to find out that her older self had the uniform (meaning she passed). Any episodes set in a junior high setting is likely to at least mention cram school once. A few anime do directly deal with how hard it is to get in, but this is kind of rare due to the nature of manga and anime... But I'll guarantee that Japanese dramas most likely have it predating SM. It's just that I don't have access to enough 80's anime and dramas to make a full range assessment yet. Anyway, it's a common subject for episode fillers. Sailor Moon was fortunate to milk this for everything it had... and managed to make 4 exam battles, several commentaries and several scenes, plus an anime special on the subject. Not to mention the times that "cram school" was mentioned... --Hitsuji Kinno 05:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Three Exam Battles. ;) --Masamage 05:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I concede. As far as referencing goes for GA, there does seem to be an 80% rule of thumb floating around. Does it look like 80% of our article is referenced? - Malkinann 20:24, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Popularity

The following line sounds highly suspect in my opinion:

Ami is frequently cited as the most popular character in the series, especially among Japanese audiences.

Can someone please verify this claim as soon as possible? The temptation to outright delete it is almost too much to bear. I know Ami is much loved, but considering her diminishing role as the series progresses, you'd think this statement would no longer hold true. Kakashi-sensei 23:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It does need a citation, but I'm 85% certain it's true, if that helps ease the temptation any. :) I'm pretty sure Naoko talks about it in her side notes to one of the early manga; I'm looking for it now. --Masamage 23:20, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

You can try this one: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.anime/msg/f31a4ee65f66a0ea?hl=en

Nausicaa was the #1 character in Animage for a *long* time, until she was knocked off the top by Ami. Ken Arromdee 20:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Can we find a scan of the original magazine, at all? - Malkinann 02:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I added the reference for now, and cited the original reference lightly since it was mentioned... I don't know if I can get an issue that dates that far back. I do know someone who collects them, but I doubt he has something that old. It might be worth mentioning that this was during the run of SM, rather than now. Anyway, a collector probably has them then you can ask. ^_^ That's how I got the toy box references. --Hitsuji Kinno 03:35, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I could swear it's in the side notes to one of the manga books. Can't find it in my English manga, and can't find any translations of her notes in the Japanese manga. Grarr. --Masamage 04:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, "frequently cited", to me, means "we're gonna need more than one citation saying how popular she is". - Malkinann 04:11, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe that Takeuchi-sensei said that it was Osa-P's favorite character (I suspect this was why he was against her being a robot and being killed.) and she was shocked (in Black Moon arc) how popular that Ami was and was surprised it was not Usagi. (Original liner notes, the Tokyopop version was severely truncated due to space issues--this was back when Alex Glover had the liner notes up on his website.) However, the popular character changed throughout the series. It is notable though that the popularity contest had Neo-Queen Serenity and Usagi different... as well as Sailor Moon v. Usagi and Super Sailor Moon v. Sailor Moon... I have the books with those popularities in them. So it did shift over time. Chibiusa did take first place once. There were reports one per arc, I believe. BTW, that stat on Chibiusa might be good for supporting the idea that Chibiusa was hated in the US (need source), but popular in Japan. --Hitsuji Kinno 09:28, 27 November 2006 (UTC)