Talk:Sága and Sökkvabekkr

Suggestion: DYK

I don't think this article is broad enough in coverage to pass GAN. But, because you expanded it fivefold quite recently, I would suggest you quickly nominate it for Did you know, where it can get featured on the main page. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 06:36, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion, but I don't see why this wouldn't be appropriate for WP:GAN? What do you mean by "not broad enough"? This is basically all there is to say about this figure. Regarding DYK, anyone else is welcome to nominate it (if they can) but after having several DYK articles and dealing with the stipulations that DYK imposes, I no longer feel the desire to bother with the DYK process. :bloodofox: (talk) 06:39, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

(paraphrased from my comments at Talk:Hlín/GA1) You obviously have done a lot of great work digging up as much information as you can, but my worry is that if this is all there is to say on the topic it might just not be notable enough for GA. This article does have more substance than Hlín, though, and I think would probably be at least borderline if it gets reviewed (ie, if I were reviewing this, I don't know if I would pass it, but I wouldn't speedily close it like I did Hlín; it's got enough substance to at least be worthy of a more in-depth review).

You're right that anyone can nominate it...I thought about nominating it myself, but after looking through it for a minute I couldn't find any good hook fact that jumped out at me (I guess partly since I don't understand the subject matter well enough) so I guess I'll leave that up to someone else. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 07:11, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

These are all of the attestations there are for this goddess outside of perhaps some kennings here and there (which wouldn't provide additional information about her). :bloodofox: (talk) 07:14, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the kennings. It's interesting, for example, that Sága is used several times in valkyrie kennings while Hlín, despite being more common in general, is never used in such a way. It might also be possible to say some things about romantic conceptions of the goddess, when she seems to have been conceived of as a saga-goddess. Haukur (talk) 12:35, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, a Google Books search for "Saga, goddess of history" gives 77 hits.[1] So this conception might be common enough to mention. Haukur (talk) 12:44, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Though, to be clear, I do think Bloodofox has done a great job with these little articles, the essential facts—few as they are—are all present and it's pretty neat that we've managed to dig up three public domain images for a figure as obscure as Sága. Haukur (talk) 12:52, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I had read somewhere about Sága potentially being the personification of the saga, so to speak, but couldn't seem to recall exactly where it was and couldn't find any sources on the matter when I was looking around the other day. Thanks for the sources on that, I'll add it. As for the kenning thing, that is pretty interesting. Do you know of a published source we can add to the article mentioning it? :bloodofox: (talk) 16:10, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

It seems that none of those 70 hits go into why Sága would be a "goddess of history" (presumably due to a theorized saga connection) but I'll dig around later and see what I can find. :bloodofox: (talk) 16:44, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Grimm mentions her in passing as "goddess of poetic art" [2] and more elaborated as the personification of the saga (I think), among other theories, here. He also notes that Sága might be taken as Odin's wife or daughter. Should at least be something to draw from in those two links. –Holt (T•C) 18:26, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Great, this is probably exactly what we needed. With the Grimm reference I can probably make something comprehensible. I'll take a closer look at it sometime soon. :bloodofox: (talk) 09:21, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Kennings

Here's what's in Finnur Jónsson's Lexicon Poeticum and Ordbog til rímur.

Kennings for a woman

• Sága jötna róma, Sága of voices of jötnar, Griplur, 15th century
• menja Sága, Sága of necklaces, Herburtsrímur, 15th century
• hirði-Sága hornflœðar, keeper-Sága of horn-flood, Grettis saga, 14th century
• gulls Sága, Sága of gold, Meyjadrápa, 14th century
• síks elda Sága, Sága of fires of ditch, Kátrínardrápa, 14th century
• linns eiða Sága, Sága of isthmuses of worm, Kátrínardrápa, 14th century
• sveigar Sága, Sága of snood, Njáls saga, age unclear
• saums Sága, Sága of seam, Hallfreðr vandræðaskáld, ca. 1000
• síðernis Sága OR dregils Sága, Sága of robe OR Sága of ribbon, Kormákr Ögmundarson, 10th century
• sigli-Sága, jewelry-Sága, Kormákr Ögmundarson, 10th century
• öl-Sága, ale-Sága, Kormákr Ögmundarson, 10th century
• saums Sága, Sága of seam, Gísli Súrsson, 10th century
• lœgis log-Sága, flame-Sága of sea, Gísli Súrsson, 10th century

Kennings for valkyrie/battle

• folka Sága, Sága of battles, Hrafn Önundarson, ca. 1000
• dolga Sága, Sága of battles, Vellekla, 10th century
• rifjunga Sága, Sága of swords, Gráfeldardrápa, 10th century

Great, this definitely needs to be in the article! :bloodofox: (talk) 20:30, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

How about: "In skaldic poetry the name Sága is used several times in kennings for women. The name is already used in such a way by the 10th century poet Kormákr Ögmundarson and remains in use in the Icelandic religious poetry and rímur of the Late Middle Ages. The name was also used in valkyrie kennings by Einarr Helgason and two other 10th century poets." Haukur (talk) 14:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, though I'd make that "battle/valkyrie kennings" and we might want to bring out the "two other 10th century poets" a specifically; either the names of the works or the names of the author (if known). . :bloodofox: (talk) 18:52, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm always slightly worried about getting too specific because we have questions of authenticity. Finnur Jónsson believed the verses attributed to Hrafn Önundarson are authentic but I'm not sure if later scholars agree. But I think the poetry attributed to Einarr Helgason and Glúmr Geirason is very likely to be authentic. Haukur (talk) 19:01, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, slap a reference on it and I am A-OK with your original proposal. :} :bloodofox: (talk) 19:11, 15 February 2009 (UTC)