Talk:Roger Garaudy

Changes

• I'm going to try to make some constructive changes to this page, if anyone knows of an English biography of this man that would help plenty. I found two books on Socialism by this man and was surprised by how little English information there is on him and was shocked by the content on this page. I have to say it gives off a quite Islamaphobic tone. This man did a multitude of things before he converted to Islam and questioned the facts of the holocaust. I may not agree with everything he said but this is Wikipedia and it is meant to be as unbiased as possible.
• I've also rearranged the sections on this talk page so that it goes chronologically from newest at the top, oldest at the bottom, as I'm pretty sure is the norm here on Wikipedia. Not Joey Clavette (talk) 09:08, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Changed the initial description. Wtf was that. He did and later when you go deeper into the article, you see that he wasn't exactly questioning the holocaust but rather Israel's use of the holocaust as a scapegoat and boogeyman for its operations in the Middle East. Joseph Memestar (talk) 22:18, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Criticism?

This article contains much commendation from the Islamic world, I would like to know how the rest of the world viewed his extensive scholarly pursuits(i.e. peers/academics).65.73.44.148 (talk) 13:10, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Notability

As per the Wikipedia rules on notability, what do this article's more dedicated editors say Garaudy's notability is, and why? My impression from the article and the source material I've looked at is that he's notable as someone with a reputation for being a Holocaust denier, and that his unrelated contributions to philosophy and literature are not significant (meaning that his philosophical and literary works are significant only in terms of what they say about the Holocaust). Just seeking some education here under the legitimizing aegis of becoming less incompetent to edit the article. Guyovski (talk) 00:24, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

• Ah, recentism built of not reading books, at least not history ones! ☺ There was a time — a whole couple of decades in fact — when "l'affaire Garaudy" meant to "deux personnes sur trois" a high profile expulsion from the PCF. It's glossed over in this biography in one sentence. But if one actually goes and looks for sources one finds that it's a fair fraction of this person's life and there's far more than one sentence to say about it. Try reading Couturier 1972, Taylor 2004, p. 257–258, and Dreyfus 1990, p. 153,156–157, et al. for starters. Uncle G (talk) 08:46, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Taylor, Philip (2004). "A Passion for Debate: French Communist Party Internal Opposition from Garaudy to Fiterman". In Gargett, Graham (ed.). Heroism and Passion in Literature: Studies in Honour of Moya Longstaffe. Internationale Forschungen zur allgemeinen und vergleichenden Literaturwissenschaft. Vol. 77. Rodopi. ISBN 9789042016927. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  • Couturier, Louis (1972). "l'Affaire Garaudy (1970)". "Grandes affaires" du parti communiste français. Livres rouges (in French). Vol. 8. François Maspero. pp. 74–82. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  • Dreyfus, Michel (1990). PCF: crises et dissidences : de 1920 à nos jours. Questions au XXe siècle (in French). Vol. 12. Éditions Complexe. ISBN 9782870273203. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

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Expanding by translation?

Would it be nice and useful to expand this article by using the translation of the same article from French. French version seems to provide less shallow information about this important person...

Or, are there some deeper reasons for this situation (the lack of information as if Garaudy is an ordinary figure), like, him being a Holocaust denier? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.164.144.89 (talk) 13:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC) If this is an offer I think you should just go for it. 62.226.30.93 (talk) 19:13, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Clean up needed on aisle 3

I will try to improve this article by adding SOURCED material to the article. I encourage all editors to only add sourcable material by reliabe sources going forward. Thanks --Tom 00:58, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Category:Anti-Semitic people

Can we get better sourcing for this. Thanks --Tom 00:46, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Is Garaudy a Holocaust denier?

I draw the attention of all to the following interview in French:

http://www.radioislam.org/islam/french/actual/garaudy/garaud1.htm

where Garaudy states:

"Je considère que le meurtre de juifs durant la Seconde Guerre mondiale est un fait."

Nevertheless, it appears that a French court convicted Garaudy of Holocaust denial. Most OECD countries have criminalized Holocaust denial. Such laws are inconsistent with freedom of speech, and with the notion that the courts are not the place to sort out intellectual disputes. It is possible that the French court was unable or unwilling to do justice to the complexity and full range of Garaudy's thought.

I agree that the entry should say more about Garaudy, an intelligent, restless, even tortured man, more interesting than any fictional character in a Graham Greene novel. He was raised a Protestant, and ran a Bible discussion group while a POW in Germany during WWII. Soon after the war he joined the French Communist party, which expelled him in 1970 for criticizing the USSR. Earlier he had been kicked out of Protestant groups for his Party membership. During the 1950s and 60s, Garaudy was one of the most intellectually respectable French Communists, whose writings had admirers among confirmed Christians and people on the French Right. The interview in the above link reveals a rather idiosyncratic Moslem and a confirmed critic of Israel. I trust that those who read this will agree that anti-Zionism and anti-semitism can be quite distinct.202.36.179.65 20:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Holocaust denial IS anti-semitism... The Holocaust is the most documented genocide in History. Many people who proclaim themselves as "Anti-Zionist" simply use the shield of anti-Zionism to spout anti-semitic rhetoric --like Holocaust Denial. This is a manifestation of the "new" anti-semitism.

There may be more to Roger Garudy's life that might justifiably be included on his Wikipedia page. But there is no doubt that he was indeed anti-semitic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.80.162.253 (talk) 01:56, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Actually that is quite false a narrative you've got there. There is evident white washing here in order to promote Islamophobia. I mean, Roger Garaudy is one of the, if not, the most important Philosopher post WW2. And out of all the interesting things that could be there in the intro, it is an out of context "Holocaust denial." His take was more about Israel's misuse of the genocide than about the numbers. He is a philosopher. Not a historian. Joseph Memestar (talk) 22:21, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Admittedly I am no authority on French philosophers, but calling Garaudy one of the most important philosophers (let alone the most important) post-WWII seems like a pretty bold claim to make. More important than Sartre? Foucault? Althusser? Camus? From my limited knowledge, Garaudy's importance came from being the PCF's most prominent philosopher and being an advocate of dialogue between Christians and Marxists. Being expelled from the PCF seemed to mark the steady decline of his influence, so that by the time of his death he was, in fact, mostly known for his statements on the Holocaust and for having converted to Islam. As an American, the aforementioned four philosophers are still regularly mentioned, but I've never heard anyone namedrop or cite Garaudy. --Ismail (talk) 12:51, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Abbé Pierre and Holocaust denial

"Abbé Pierre endorsed...", which claims that Abbé Pierre is agree with Roger Garaudy book have to be sourced. In the french version of the article about Abbé Pierre, it is said that he doesn't agree with all viewpoints of Roger Garaudy (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abb%C3%A9_Pierre). I recommand to be more accurate especially whit accusations like endorsing Holocaust denial. In France, denial of Holocaust is an offence. Roger Garaudy has been convicted and sentenced. Has Abbé Pierre been convicted of Holocaust denial by a justice court ? If not, this would be deffamation.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.121.1.26 (talk) 14:33, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• I removed the accusations of endorsing of Roger Garaudy Books by Abbé Pierre... I didn't find any convictions of it by a court. A lot of anti-racism leagues are present in France, they would have sued him, if he would really have endorsed it. I think it is only intentional confuse between the frendship of Abbé Pierre for Roger Garaudy and the endorsing of his books.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.121.1.26 (talk) 13:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I post a demand here for the exapnsion of this article, it is very short and needs a lot of missing information.—Preceding unsigned comment added by A J Damen (talk) • contribs) 19:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Correcting false info that is not in the citation.

Can Gallassi explain why this has been reverted by him/her: “One of his books has been deemed as containing information regarded as Holocaust denial.[3]” If you read the citation it does NOT claim “many of his books” as was previously stated. That was demonstrably false. Thus I corrected it. Can you please explain why you keep reverting that edit?The citation ONLY refers to one book. Secondly This article is about a person. Wiki policy regarding biographies is quite clear about fairness and neutrality. The article has verifiable referenced info of Garaudy declaring that he never “denied” the WW2 persecution of European Jewry. So can we not agree to keep this article as accurately WN:neutral as possible so that the wiki reader can be better informed and thus can make up their own mind based upon the basic facts without spin. “All encyclopedic content on Wikipedia must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.”--Mystichumwipe (talk) 07:13, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

It is called WP:WEASEL language.--Galassi (talk) 10:47, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

That does not really answer my questions/points in any way that I can see. Please can you attempt to answer my specific points. Otherwise I see no other option than to report this as a case of someone engaging in an edit war without attempting to reach consensus on the talk page. We can't claim Garaudy "denied" the holocaust when in the book for which he was fined he argued that the holocaust was being used for political ends. That is an obvious logical contradiction. And the citation does not support the statement in the intro to which you have just reverted of "many books have been deemed Holocaust denial.". That is a simple verifiable fact. Do YOU really mean to deny that fact? If not why do you keep reverting the edit which brings the lead back into alignment with the cited reference?--Mystichumwipe (talk) 11:42, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Is he notable for anything else?--Galassi (talk) 12:13, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

The book for which he is infamous claims there were no gas chambers, and Jews died out in a typhus epidemic. Good bye.--Galassi (talk) 12:15, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I see you have attempted to provide references for the incorrect info in the lead. That is good. But unfortunately neither of the citations are properly made. You need to follow the wiki format of author, book title, page number etc. And again the citations you have provided do not support the statement of "many books". Consequently I am correcting the intro and the heading. If you find a reputable, reliable secondary source that confirms "many books" "deemed holocaust denial" then I will concede and you can reinstate that wording. Until such time please do not revert or I will be forced to seek moderation for edit warring. --Mystichumwipe (talk) 15:07, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

If you edit in goodfaith - you may format them correctly. Reverting shows something else.--Galassi (talk) 17:04, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

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Expansion of bio

For such a significant figure, there is very little written here about his actual biography, especially his activities in the French resistance. Laval (talk) 05:16, 12 November 2020 (UTC)