Talk:Robotech/Archive 1

Legal Issues

Should the legal issues explained in <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macross> be mentioned in this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.134.71.149 (talk) 00:14, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Video game thoughts?

"A continuity nightmare, the game had a Zentraedi invasion during what was scripted in the series as a period of peace."

Is 'a continuity nightmare' really an appropriate choice of words?

"Robotech: The Macross Saga (2002) for the Game Boy Advance, a side-scrolling shooter that is a remake of the Japanese Super Famicom game Macross: Scrambled Valkyrie."

This is patently false. Macross: Scrambled Valkyrie is a completely different, unrelated game. Robotech: The Macross Saga has cartoony Super Deformed characters and takes place during the original SDF Macross series/Robotech: The Macross Saga, whereas Scrambled Valkyrie takes place following the SDF Macross in a storyline not part of the canon of either Macross or Robotech. The Robotech game features regular VF-1 Valkyries as well as Roy Fokker and Ben Dixon as playable characters, while Scrambled Valkyrie features a new modified Valkyrie design, the VF-1SOL, and Roy Focker and Hayao Kakizaki are not in the game because they were both already dead. They share zero programming and zero art assets and even the play mechanics are different. All that is the same is that they are horizontally scrolling shooters both based on Macross. This is not a remake.

Some links with images of Scrambled Valkyrie: http://homepage.mac.com/thansson/reviews/MacrossSNES/MacrossSNES.htm and http://www.shmup.com/index.php?page=fiche&id=122

Some links with images of Robotech: The Macross Saga GBA: http://gameboy.gamezone.com/gamesell/reviews/r20388.htm and http://gba.gamespy.com/gameboy-advance/robotech-the-macross-saga/572228p1.html

A cursory look will show you that they are not at all the same game.

Vandalism

Some people ... look out to block 207.72.38.21 if this happens again (archived page)

--Corsair Armada 20:43, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Dissatisfied with this paragraph.

I don't like this paragraph.

In addition, the 65-episode minimum guideline cited as the reason to combine the episodes applied specifically to weekday syndication. Contemporary series such as Star Blazers and The Transformers series were initially syndicated weekly before reaching the 65 episode mark. The guideline also did not necessarily require a combined storyline; adaptations like Voltron coupled two unrelated Japanese series without initially combining the storylines until a crossover special years later. Defenders counter that such changes were critical for getting the show onto American television, given the cultural and economic environment of 1985. In the current climate of broadcast and cable television, such conditions do not exist.

The first two sentences seem to imply that Macek's goal could have been met with a weekly syndication series. However, all accounts I have seen indicate that Macek's goal was always a weekday syndication series from the beginning—therefore, weekly syndication would not meet that goal. I believe it's disingenuous to say that he could have gone with weekly syndication when this was not ever his goal in adapting a series from the outset. (Also, the series mentioned may not be the best example, because as the paragraph itself notes, they did end up becoming syndicated by weekday when they had enough episodes available.) Can someone else rephrase this? My attempt does not seem to have done the job.

--Robotech_Master 23:28, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I came in here to address the very same passage. Not only is it an argument, it's a weak argument, since Macek's decision lead to unprecedented success. The cited serieses are inappropriate -- because Starblazers was very nearly a failure (saved, barely, by weekday syndication), and Transformers was such a contemporary of Macek's Robotech production that it remained unproven (episodes of Transformers were structured differently from any of these other anime titles, as well, in that they were almost entirely self-contained). Rather than try to hammer the argument into something less misleading, I suggest that the entire paragraph simply be removed. ManticMan 64.111.226.19 (talk) 03:31, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Too Long?

With the addition of the RPG section, and expansions to various other sections, this entry is 53K long. Might it be a good idea to split it into smaller sections?

--Robotech_Master 20:21, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

We should start with a separate article for Robotech (television series) to move over a big chunk of cast/crew, broadcast and video release details and maybe a disambiguation page for Robotech (comics), Robotech (novels), etc.

--Corsair Armada 00:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I would be inclined to keep the Robotech entry focussed on the TV series, since Robotech was a TV series first and foremost, and spin off the various sections into separate articles, with summary entries in the main article. I'd like it to meet the featured article guidelines so that it might someday merit feature article consideration.

--Robotech_Master 16:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

OK. Just moved the comics, novels, and RPG information into separate articles with a new disambiguation page to link to everything Robotech-related. There's also a separate television series article, but I'd like some feedback before further editing the main article. (I think the huge cast and crew lists can go now that the separate article can focus on TV production history)

--Corsair Armada 09:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I would personally tend to favor the use of the Wikipedia:Summary style guidelines, where the things that are moved into separate articles have summary sub-articles within the main article, followed by a link to the larger separate article. This has the advantage of providing a short overview of the separate issue within the article itself, and not making the reader go to a disambiguation page to be appraised that they exist. I gather that this is the preferred format for Featured Articles.

--Robotech_Master 21:55, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

It's already been done that way. The comics, novels, and RPG's sections have been summarized per Wiki guidelines into a Robotech Franchise section which contain links to the larger separate articles. The disambiguation page is for quick access to other related topics as requested here.

--Corsair Armada 05:06, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

OK. Decided to wait a couple weeks first for feedback--just moved big sections of TV, production and home video details to Robotech (television series) and left links from summarized sections per Wiki guidelines. Article size is now down to a more manageable 30KB.

--Corsair Armada 01:11, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Important Info

the wiki is huge. there's tons of info. but unfortunately....there's nothing that really describes what ROBOTECH is. the only descriptive sentence is "it's about three alien invasions of earth." ok? are there robots? is there fighting? somebody please help this article. i have the feeling that in robotech there are huge robotic fighting machines... but the wiki, despite being HUGE, doesn't actually confirm or deny this. 128.119.232.54 02:21, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I believe the storyline information is found in the Robotech Wars article. Still, it might be a good idea to add some sort of more detailed synopsis. I'll have to think on that.

--Robotech_Master 20:21, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, went ahead and added a bit more information.

--Robotech_Master 20:54, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I too think there needs to be a main paragraph/section, close to the beginning, to explain what the robots did: how they transformed, what they transformed into, the weapons they used, etc. Then after the basics are explained, the rest will be more useful. As this article stands today, it's not of any use to someone that has never seen the show or any of the toys, but it's incredibly useful to fans trying to trace its history.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.203.175.175 (talk • contribs)

Banner ad?

Is it appropiate to have what seems to be a banner ad at the start of this article?

Technicaly "Robotech" is property of Harmony gold, and Image on the top is from Harmony Golds Offical site. I cant see why its a problem.

Robotech the RPG

I think their needs to be more information on the role playing game made by Palladium Books in the 80's, if we are going to have a whole paragraph on computer games of Robotech, we might as well disscus the RPG and CCG that were made also.

Agreed. If anyone has information regarding you might as well make a section regarding it.--Alfador 05:37, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Done!

--Robotech_Master 20:21, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Story Overview

I think there should be one. There are a few hints about the story in the opening hook, but its lost in a discussion of the original Japanese animation. --Rev Prez 18:50, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, you're probably right. I started to write one, as part of my recent revision, but bogged down in getting too detailed. I'll have to consider adding one—or else someone else could...

--Robotech_Master 20:21, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, went ahead and added a bit more information.

--Robotech_Master 20:54, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Disambiguation page

Would it be appropriate to have a disambiguation page, considering the number of topics with a similar title found when searching: [1] (and also I was looking for Robotech, the super-nintendo game but to no avail). Anser 5 July 2005 13:38 (UTC)1

Good idea, already created one at Robotech (disambiguation) and duplicated some of the information into separate articles for television series, novels, comics, and role-playing games. This might help the overall length of this article meet guidelines. Will wait for more feedback before editing the main article.

--Corsair Armada 20:43, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. Created one here to link to everything Robotech-related. Cut the main article down from 59KB to 44KB, closer to wiki guidelines.

--Corsair Armada 09:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

N64 Game

I have added a statement classifying the game as vaporware, which is a reasonabely accurate description given the circumstances of its demise. As a matter of fact that is how it was stated to me in a response to a letter I wrote to Nintendo of America inquiring as to the game's status. Also I have rephrased the comment on continuity on a way that seems to be a little clearer and more objective.--Alfador 05:43, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Regess? Regis? Regiss?

The other day, this came up in the Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles entry, where the name of the female leader of the Invid was spelled "Regis," as it had usually been spelled in Robotech continuity to date. If you look at any of the print material currently extant pertaining to Robotech, you see her name appear as "Regis"—or in some cases "Regiss," lest you fear that Harmony Gold was capable of being internally consistent. McKinney novels, Art books, Palladium RPG, etc. all feature the spelling with an i. The official Robotech website's episode listings included that spelling. Furthermore, a Google search on "Invid Regis" has 535 hits and a search on "Invid Regiss" gets 77, whereas a search on "Invid Regess" gets only 21 (and a little box asking "Did you mean Invid Regis?").

However, that is not the correct spelling of the female form of "Regent," as someone noted when they made a spelling correction on the Shadow Chronicles entry.

The odd thing is, when I pointed out that the character's name had always been spelled "Regis," using the link to the website as proof...apparently someone at Harmony Gold was watching, because they went and changed the website (though if you do a search on "regis" in Robotech.com's own search box you'll see there are still several instances of "Regis" and "Regiss" there).

So Robotech.com is apparently trying to "correct" the spelling of the Invid Regis/Regess's name. The thing is, there are still twenty years of material out there that spell it "Regis".

How should this sort of thing be handled? Character names don't necessarily have to be spelled "correctly" and this one has been spelled "incorrectly" for twenty years now. But on the other hand, one would imagine they always meant for it to be spelled correctly, since they spelled the Invid Regent's name thusly.

It's confusing—and annoying. --Robotech_Master 18:44, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Wow, how strange & akward. --mordicai. 02:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

If you think that's awkward, in Mospeada the character was called the Refless, a word made up by applying the female-ruler -ess suffix to "Reflex" as in "Reflex Point."

Well, the translation across from Mospeada to Robotech is a pretty good signifier of change, so I don't sweat that stuff. Rather the changing of horses in midstream, though I suppose the standpoint of only considering the shows themself canon is perfectly reasonable. As you point out below, the real absurdity is the 1984ing of the term out of exsistance. --mordicai. 23:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

And don't even get me started on Kathy Lee. --Robotech_Master 11:37, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I would expect that the writers of the show must surely have meant to use Regess, given that her counterpart was the Regent. I'm not sure how the "Regis" or "Regiss" spellings got started; perhaps someone transcribing the show didn't realize it was a real word rather than a made-up alien title, didn't know how to spell it properly, or thought it was supposed to be spelled like the beginning of "regicide." Harmony Gold wasn't as scrupulous about making sure all interpretations agreed with each other back then as they are now, so they probably didn't even notice at the time, or care very much if they did.

The fact remains that as soon as someone pointed out it was an erroneous spelling and I cited a Robotech.com page as "proof" the erroneous spelling was correct for Robotech, nearly the entirety of robotech.com mysteriously and instantaneously changed to the other spelling. It's weird as hell, and was a bit annoying at the time, but by now I just find it amusing. --Robotech_Master 16:51, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Shadow Chronicles "unfinished"?

Should Shadow Chronicles still be listed under "unfinished" sequels when we know that at least the first 90 minute movie has been completed and only awaits finding a distributor?

--Robotech_Master 19:27, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Until we see shrinkwrapped copies in stores, it could be vaporware as far as anyone's concerned. --Ra1d3n 04:03, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

There are available profiles of characters

Whoever does characters need to do research and make profiles. There is a link to get information - http://www.kent.net/robotech/characters/ and http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/characters/

Was Robotech the first cartoon with interracial romance?

The latest edit seems to claim Star Trek the animated series did it first in 1973. Given that it would have been more controversial then than it was in 1985, I would think that this would have been noted elsewhere. Star Trek did have the first interracial kiss, but that happened in the live action series, not the cartoon. Maybe the editor can direct us to the episode that supports his statement.

As for the transgender thing, Robotech may not be the first to feature cross dressing characters, but it was certainly the first I'm aware of that presents it as a serious part of the character's lifestyle. Other cartoons usually involve crossdressing as a gag usually involving characters we know to be heterosexual (and going on general principles, all American cartoon characters human or anthropomorphic are straight till the creators actually tell us otherwise). Usually, the disguise is not too convincing, except maybe to other cartoon characters. Lancer, IMHO, was pretty convincing and his crossdressing role was not presented as a gag. Among Robotech fans, there's actually some question concerning Lancer's sexuality, given his general effeminate personality and especially now knowing that Cam Clarke, the actor behind Lancer's voice is gay. I have heard rumors that the New Generation segment of Robotech was often omitted by broadcasters because the stations were nervous about Lancer's cross-dressing. They would instead repeat Macross Saga instead. Cartoon Network, I remember did just that. There might be something to this.Mr. ATOZ 17:02, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Lancer apparently had some past romance with Carla and Sera (Robotech character), so he was, reasonable to believe, a heterosexual cross-dresser. Cam Clarke was also the voice of Max Sterling, the character who fell in love with Miriya and married her. Their line of logic that seeks to equate any perceived ambiguity in Lancer with his American voice actor is a flawed one.

--Siyavash 18:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Just to note, even if Star Trek didn't count, Robotech still wouldn't be the first cartoon with interracial romance in any case. That honor would go to Macross, which predates Robotech by a year or so. I wouldn't be surprised if some Japanese or other foreign nation's cartoon featured interracial romance before Macross, though. Just because we didn't know about it in the USA doesn't mean it didn't happen.

--Robotech_Master 05:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• I see your point, but is it the "first American cartoon"? America has always been behind a lot of other countries in regard to how it treats animation. The question has come up at conventions, especially in regards to broadcasting the show in the Southern states--Mr. ATOZ 18:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The term "interracial" is somewhat a problematic one when dealing with sci-fi cartoon stories. For example, in the Animated Star Trek episode "Yesteryear" you have Spock's parents presented--does this relationship between a Vulcan and a Human 'count'?--216.31.14.233 (talk) 18:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD discussion for Ariel

The page on Ariel was recently "deleted" in an afd discussion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ariel (Invid); since the consensus was to merge, I have moved the page to Characters in Robotech New Generation. But it occurred to me afterwards that I ought to discuss the move here before doing anything else. At the moment it would be easy to put the page back at Ariel (Invid), if necessary. Ben Standeven 05:35, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Stub?

How is this article a stub? We actually had to pare it down because it was too long for Wiki guidelines. --Robotech_Master 16:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

No, Virginia, there's no live-action Robotech

In February 2006, Kickstart's website very briefly claimed they were developing a Robotech live-action show, and this was widely reported. However, this statement was removed almost immediately, as it was the result of someone getting confused and thinking Shadow Chronicles was going to be live-action.

If you look at [2], as the editor of the last entry suggested, all you see is that they are an animation and live-action production company, and "They are also developing well-known properties, including classic action-adventure series VOLTRON and ROBOTECH." The only live-action production mentioned in that entire page is Painkiller Jane.

If you look in [3], Robotech is firmly mentioned in the Animated section, and if you look in [4] there's no mention of Robotech whatsoever.

So, if you want to put something in about Robotech live-action, you can put that Kickstart's site said for about two days that there was going to be one, over a year ago. It was a goof, quickly fixed, but the thing about the Internet is that bad information propagates forever. --Robotech_Master 05:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I stand corrected. But you have to admit, that site is worded so that it is stating that they are developing a live action ROBOTECH series. Your Wiki-Fu is greater than mine. *bow* Jeffrywith1e

Well, now it looks like I was right.Jeffrywith1e 05:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I never said they wouldn't do a live-action Robotech. Just that nobody's said they were doing one yet. (In fact, on my talk show Space Station Liberty, HG reps have said they might consider a live-action show depending on how well the Transformers live-action movie does. But that's a far cry from "are going to do one," is not enough to merit writing up in Wikipedia, and in any event it isn't the source of the rumors that I referred to that caused your original entry.)

Also, the person who keeps adding that bit about a live-action movie being proposed has not provided any links to articles or other verification of any kind. A cursory Google and Google News search doesn't turn anything up, either. If he is not able to provide proof, that section should be reverted until he can. --Robotech_Master 06:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

This SirLaosson Dara has been injecting false information into several online sites now. His own website clams he made his first movie in 2003 and has been working in the films of others since 2000. Yet, his fake Internet Movie Database entry claims this person in Memphis somehow worked on as a actor in Returner, a producer/writer/art director on two episode of Last Exile, and a special effects supervisor on Dragon Head in Japan; an AI programmer on Halo/Halo 3 in Washington; a writer/producer on seven Thai films; and a writer on Gwai Wik in Hong Kong. Yet, for some reason, this person is still looking for sponsors from "Subway, Kroger, and other local restaurants and businesses" in Memphis. The Kazzurie website is a copy-and-paste job off CAVU Pictures. If someone reading this is an admin at IMDB.com, you might want to delete this person's entry for false information.1-54-24 19:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Thought it might be something like that. --Robotech_Master 23:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Just so's newcomers don't get confused, the above considerably pre-dated the recent Warner Brothers announcement. So, yes, Virginia, there will be a live-action Robotech—assuming that it makes it out of Development Hell, anyway. —Robotech_Master 23:30, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

People, please be on the alert for any unsourced data on alleged casting details that have been cropping up in the live-action movie section. I think it would be better if the official casting and production details be put here when they are available, instead of too-generalized stuff that start with 'The Internet has been abuzz with rumors that...' for example. Eaglestorm 13:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Merger

Yes to merger. Its a natural. Decoratrix 19:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Hell No. A single character's information has no place in this article, and will quickly be lost. SAMAS 01:50, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

No to merger I agree with SAMAS. How about we just add an individual character list to the template at the bottom of the page?

ummmm, yes to merger with the Macross page? Since Robotech is an American re-naming/re-release of Macross right??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.100.48 (talk) 09:34, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

No to merger If Robotech were simply "an American re-naming/re-release of Macross" then I might agree, but merging ignores the two other series used in its creation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.38.214.8 (talk) 18:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)