Talk:Robin Wonsley

WP:BRD

Minnemeeples, you deleted content from reliable sources that appear to properly support content as primary sources. For example, see WP:BASIC, which states, Primary sources may be used to support content in an article. These deletions also interfere with a citation, and I am concerned about the changes to the chronology of the article. I would be happy to discuss this further. Beccaynr (talk) 06:32, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the discussion. Information about the person's post-college travels are over-weighted in the article and trivial. (See Wikipedia:NOTEVERYTHING.) Also, the sources for it are this puff piece published on the Carleton College website and this from her campaign website. (See Wikipedia:PRIMARY.) One of the criticism on the deletion discussion page is that the RS coverage is weak. My edits were an attempt to remove extraneous information and weak sources. (See Biographies of living persons dos and don'ts.) The person is notable. Not every minor detail about them is. Minnemeeples (talk) 06:56, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

We are crossing the streams a bit, because I just replied on your Talk page, my apologies. But, like I said over there, content about her travel was grant-funded and connected to her education, not a trivial vacation, and I cited her campaign website because the institution that sent her there used clunky language to describe what she studied, and it seemed helpful to incorporate her description as well. From my view, there is a theme in the sources that emerged after I pulled the content together, so from my view, the research she conducted for her PHd is also relevant to her current political career. And to continue that thought in light of your additional explanation here, it is the connection between her education, activism, and political career development that from my view, make these pertinent details that help develop the article. Also, the Carleton College source would help support her notability per WP:NPROF, because it is from her alma mater, and therefore reliable for the basic facts it supports in the article. Beccaynr (talk) 07:02, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

We have to be careful to avoid the criticism of original research/synthesis by inferring such themes. You might want to consider replacing the campaign website link with her official government webpage. I am not going to start an edit war about it, but I would suggest that the Carlton College profile of a student is a primary source. The news media has not noted the Watson Fellowship in its coverage of the person. Minnemeeples (talk) 07:28, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

I might also suggest "Political career" be "Career" with a subheader for "Early career" and a subheader for "Minneapolis City Council" (See Lisa Bender, for example). But that is just a matter of style. Again, not wanting to start an edit war over headers. :) Just a friendly suggestion. The article may also be perceived as having a one-sided perspective of the person that largely draws what they studied in school and their policy positions and is somewhat lacking in neutral point of view. An editor on the deletion discussion page noted the disproportionate mention of her policy positions. More complete coverage is needed, otherwise the article reads a bit like a résumé. The article correctly notes that she defeated Cam Gordon. However, she won the 2021 election by 13 votes in field of candidates and barely overcame another challenger, Yusra Arab, a Muslim woman of East African decent, after several absentee ballots were rejected during a recount (this source). The narrow margin of victory might be worth noting as it was one of the closest races in city history, according to the prior source. One of her first actions in office was to organize the protest of a homeless encampment removal with four other city councilors (this source). This action fits squarely within her history of activism, but the action was also criticized by the Star Tribune Editorial Board (this article). These are just examples of ways to add more complete coverage of why there person is notable. Minnemeeples (talk) 15:55, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I completely agree about avoiding original research and synthesis, but I am not trying to imply any conclusion in the article based on an improper combination of the sources. But with regard to whether her academic focus is a relevant detail, I think it is as a general matter, and in this article, it seems additionally relevant because she continues to work on related issues during her political career, which I noticed only after adding information from sources. I also think relevant details add useful depth to the prose and help avoid the appearance of a resume-style article.

• Thank you for finding her official government website - while it also appears to be produced by her, I used it to support a basic fact about her education and to replace the campaign website, both in the article and the infobox.
• With regard to the Carleton College alumni profile, I think it is used permissibly as a primary source, including because it is not used to support extraordinary claims, and it appears to be reputably published. After further research, I noticed the Watson Fellowship is independent of Carleton College, but it is also featured in a Wikipedia article about the Watson Foundation, so this seems helpful for supporting inclusion in this article. I have not quickly found a mention by news media of the fellowship, but per WP:NOTEWORTHY, The notability guidelines do not apply to contents of articles..., so we do not necessarily need only independent and secondary sources - however, this section also states, Content coverage within a given article or list (i.e. whether something is noteworthy enough to be mentioned within the article or list) is governed by the principle of due weight, balance, and other content policies. From my view, this award accounts for a year of her biography and is part of her education, so it should be included as WP:DUE, because it is stated factually, and it is not an isolated event. I also think the Carleton source appears reliable for this fact, and it is better to include it instead of only having a source directly attributable to the subject.
• Please also note I adjusted the format of the article to incorporate some of the changes you had made earlier to separate her activism and academic career. The additional information about her education was helpful in supporting this change - I was otherwise unsure about how to best present the development of her biography, because her academic, activist, and political careers have chronological overlap, and I am trying to be careful about making editorial judgments with the typical subsections that do not seem to work as well in this article.
• Thank you for your engagement with this discussion and the article, and I am happy to continue addressing the various issues. Thanks again, Beccaynr (talk) 16:52, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Political Party

The Democratic Socialists of America is in no way a political party. It is a non-profit advocacy organization. Listing Worlobah's political party as DSA is misleading and a fundamental misunderstanding of the organization.-- User:Namiba 13:50, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

In the edit summary that restored this information, I referred to the source: A guide to the 2021 Minneapolis mayor and City Council candidates (Star Tribune, Oct. 21, 2021), which in her profile, lists "Party: Democratic Socialist". This post-election MPR article also refers to e.g. "Wonsley Worlobah, 30, joined Twin Cities DSA in March 2020 when she didn’t see other progressive political organizations willing to critique state Democrats for their early pandemic response." Beccaynr (talk) 14:27, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Regardless of what the article says, it isn't true. The DSA is a 501c4, not a political party. Wonsley is officially an independent politician. AwesomeSaucer9 (talk) 04:47, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

The council website says "Robin Wonsley is a Democratic Socialist who represents the Ward 2 neighborhoods of Longfellow, Cooper, Seward, Riverside, UMN, Augsburg, Prospect Park, and Como." And as noted above, reliable news outlets also previously reported her party affiliation as "Democratic Socialist" and "Twin Cities DSA." Beccaynr (talk) 04:52, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

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