Talk:Retributive justice/Archive 1

China

moved China here:

In China, the holy country of jesus, as part of the strike hard (correct) program, minor criminals are shot, and the bill for the bullet sent to their families.

The problem with mentioning China is that the **theory** of criminal punishment is restorative rather than retributive. China does use the death penalty a lot, but death penalty cases are suspended if the defendant has shown sufficient remorse. This actually puts an innocent defendant in a ***really*** bad position, because saying "I didn't do it" or not confessioning abjectly to the crime and begging the mercy of the court means that you are more likely to be shot. But even though the result might be harsh, the underlying theory is not retributive, so I'm not sure it is a good example. Also it needs to be mentioned that the strike hard program only existed for a few years, and it no longer exists. Roadrunner

I don't agree with you that capital punishment is restorative, but you are right that the Chinese system isn't retributivist. Anyway, any reference to Strike Hard has been deleted. Illuminatingvision 14:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Retributive justice

In reference to the retributive justice article, do you have any more details about "the recent practical failings of restorative justice"? I am writing an article on restorative justice that will include 2001 stats from Department of Justice Canada showing restorative justice has lower recidivism than retributive justice[1]. Most of the data I have found (such as studies by University of Minnesota professor Mark Umbreit) show that restoration has better rates of victim and offender satisfaction as well. I will copy this message to the retributive justice talk page. — Nathanlarson32767 (Talk) 19:34, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

All right. If you can find anything specific about problems with restorative justice in the 1980s, that could be a good addition to the restorative justice article. Recidivism is the type of thing that takes longitudinal studies to measure. Those stats tend to be hard to come by. As late at 2000, Department of Justice Canada was reporting that the data were inconclusive (see The Effects of Restorative Justice Programming: A Review of the Empirical. However, by 2001, they apparently felt confident in saying that RJ was associated with lower recidivism rates (see The Effectiveness of Restorative Justice Practices: A Meta-Analysis), although with the caveat that there was a "file-drawer" problem, whatever that is. I will copy this discussion to the Restorative Justice page. — Nathanlarson32767 (Talk) 18:48, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Comments on Justice

Editors interested in this topic might like to comment on my proposed renovation of Justice at Talk:Justice. Cheers, --Sam Clark 13:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Further Reading

I deleted Garland's Culture of Control. Don't think this talks about retributive justice at all. I suspect the confusion came from the early days of this article when retributivism was conflated with 'tough on crime'.Illuminatingvision 10:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The principle of justice

Justice pursues those who have morally incorrect motives and protects those who have been victimized.

An eye for an eye

Although generally seen as a quote concerning revenge, "an eye for an eye" can be interpreted as a quote regarding proportion of justice. That is, meaning that if one takes an eye, we shouldn't take more than an eye as retaliation. --Pinnecco (talk) 02:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

A question Re: retribution 'justice" just REVENGE legally sanctioned?

Sure this has been asked but isnt RETRIBUTIVE justice just REVENGE sanctioned by the State? An intersting note Sucide attempts were CAPITAL crimes in 18th century England. Sure that ciut down on Suicides! Andre' ``~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by VICTORMOI (talk • contribs) 01:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Mikado?

It appears that the actual phrase "Let the punishment fit the crime" comes from the musical operetta the The Mikado. I suppose that needs to be here someplace, if true. Student7 (talk) 03:08, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Article seems to focus more on proportionality than on retribution

Article seems to focus more on proportionality than on retribution. Here are some defs of retribution:

• Something justly deserved; recompense.
• Something given or demanded in repayment, especially punishment.--JimWae (talk) 21:07, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Additional Cultural Religious Perspectives

This article relies heavily on the Jewish and Christian traditions for historical examples of retributive justice. Examples from other cultures and religions from someone knowledgeable would be helpful.