Talk:Religion in Kerala

Christianity section needs to be concised.

Christianity section is too long and needs to be briefed. My knowledge is too limited for the same. therefore i have concised as for a general article. i request editors to take notice of it. pls discuss here before any reverts to it. thanks. Arjun (talk) 14:08, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Church Name and population

Does the table of Church names and population suit this page when population of neither Muslim sects nor Hindu castes are tabulated? I think its undue. For the same reason, i have removed the table. If someone is making reverts, pls note your reason below. Thanks . Arjun⁰²⁴ 05:52, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Major work has to be done on that section; the section largely talks about Syrian Christians/Nasranis. Improvement required. 18:38, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

The reason for no hindu/muslim tree is that nobody has created one. That is not a reason to delete an image in the christian section. If possible try to improve the article by creating good graphics for hindu and muslim sections. Don't just delete images from other sections instead. User:Rahuljohnson4u (talk) 16:18, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

My point was more on the Nasrani thing. As far as my limited knowledge goes, there are christians in kerala who are outside the "Nasrani" fold. they need to be represented in the graphic. Correct me if i am wrong. Thank you Arjun⁰²⁴ 18:38, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there are Christians in Kerala other than Nasranis. They are Latins, Anglo-Indians etc. Nasranis constitute more than 90% of the Kerala Christian population and the image shows various splits and denominations among them. The Latins or others need no image because they are New Christians and as if now there are no such major splis or denominations within them. Moreover they are a minority. And the article also mentions about them and their origin. There is no scope for a graphical representation. User:Rahuljohnson4u (talk) 19:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, as you admit that the graphic-tree does represent only a sect of christians in kerala, which doesnot include 10% of christain population; the graphic calls for reform. Moreover, such a graphic has little significance in 'Religons of Kerala' bcos it cannot represent any religion in Kerala per se. It requires that the graphic represents more than Syrian Christians to be eligible for some space in this article. Arjun⁰²⁴ 07:04, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Sreedhara Menon text.

The last paragraph from A Sreedhara Menon's A Survey of Kerala History, Chapter VI The Confluence of Religions , Pg 111-112.

"In the course of centuries, Islam made progress as a religion and today the Muslims are, next to Hindus, numerically the most important community in the State. The progress of the faith was, in many respects, due to the tolerant policy pursued by the rulers of Kerala and this was particularly so in North Kerala where the Zamorins of Calicut patronized Islam in in all ways.The Muslims were a major power to be reckoned with in Calicut in the days when the Zamorins were in power. They commanded the confidence of the rulers and had great influence in their court. The Muslims were given special and favoured treatment by the Zamorins for reasons of enlightened self interest. The Zamorin's navy was manned by Muslims. The heroic exploits of the Kunjali Marakkars, the Admirals of the Zamorins, in their fight against Portuguese expansionism form an important chapter in the history of Kerala. The Muslims of Malabar, otherwise called the Mappilas, were so intensely pro-Zamorin that the Zamorins had even issued an order that in order to get more male members of the families of Hindu fishermen should be brought up ans Muslims. This, perhaps accounts for the relatively high proportion of Muslims in the population of the Kozhikode and Malappuram districts of Kerala."

Source: Pg 111-112, A short survey of Kerala History, A. Sreedhara Menon, Vishwanathan Publishers 2006 Clearly, its not an out of context quote when cited as the reason for concentration of Muslims in Kozhikode and Malappuram districts of Kerala. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nmkuttiady (talk • contribs) 16:46, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Mark Wilks

Adding some info on the Mark Wilks book that I dropped. The book linked therein is the 1869 edition, Vol 1, where the pages 102-129 discuss Hyder's military campaign, hence nothing about Tipu's proclamation comes there.Pg 120 Vol 2 1869 edition( or Page 4, Vol III, 1817 edition) has a mention about Tipu's proclamation forbidding polyandry amongst Nairs, with a threatened consequence of religious conversion if the practice is continued (TW Arnold also quotes Inness -Malabar and Anjengo on this in Preaching of Islam).This does not convey that forced conversion happened. To understand how and to what extend this proclamation was implemented and stating it as a fact here needs documentary evidence, especially when discussed in the context of understanding the population statistics of this day. In any case, nowhere does the four hundred thousand figure appear, which is why I dropped it. Just to add, Logan put the 1802 population of entire Malabar at 465,594 (Malabar Manual Vol 1 Pg 81). This may be inaccurate to some minor extent, but to assume, that 80 percent of the population was converted is from a historical point of view, hard to accept.

Your constructive edits to the topic are certainly welcome, but the integrity of the content is also equally important. I'm a student of history, and would love to learn more about that era and am thankful to you for bringing into attention these books. In general, colonial era British accounts on India are taken by modern historians with a pinch of salt since a lot of the content might have been written to favour the British rule of the time. But again, outright rejection without documented reasons would not be a proper approach either. Again thanks for your contributions. You are most welcome to correct me on any of the above.NMKuttiady (talk) 06:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Choice of language: Catholic parish supporting large families

I changed the following sentence

Certain Catholic Churches in Kerala have offered hefty sums of cash to Catholic families that have large families to increase their religious population.

to

Some Catholic parishes in Kerala support large families with free schooling, medical care and cash bonuses to increase their religious population.

Reasons: 1. Well...that's actually what the source says. It's not just money but also schooling and medical care. 2. it's one parish (according to the second source) and not churches (it's not the same!). 3. The expression hefty sums do not show up in the sources. And even if it were, it's a not neutral expression. Better to just state the amount involved (as we do). That should suffice. Gugganij (talk) 00:09, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Categorizing religions as Indian / Abrahamic is unnecessary

I think the categorization as Indian Religion or Abrahamic Religion ia totally unnecessary. This causes religions such as Buddhism, Jainism, Judaism, etc who have no significant population in Kerala get more importance than Islam and Christianity which are the second and third largest religions respectively. I suggest to avoid categorizing religions as Indian or Abrahamic. The religions should be mentioned in the article in the order of its population. That is: Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Jainism, Buddhism, Judaism. It will be a fairer treatment. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.90.167.244 (talk) 07:10, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Book "Secular Kerala"

@Snowcream: You have removed material cited by a book which I think is Secular Kerala. While the material could be reworded, are you saying that the material is wrongly quoted? Or the book is not WP:RS? You mentioned WP:OR. This is not intuitively obvious. In what way was it WP:OR? Student7 (talk) 19:48, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

The added prose is predicated on the assumption that sources like mediamagazine.in, sndyogam.info are reliable. Moreover, even if one were to write content only based on RS, the subject deals with caste discrimination and ensuing conflict, which is out of scope for the article. Snowcream (talk) 08:27, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

History intermixed with current status

All articles are supposed to be about current state unless they are named "History." History should be a separate subsection. Student7 (talk) 20:56, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

2011 census district details

Distribution of population according to religion by district

Table : Distribution of population according to religion by district (The statistics are according to the First Report on Religion Data released by the Registrar General and Census Commissioner of India, 2004). District Hinduism Islam Christianity Thiruvananthapuram 2,202,112 431,512 595,563 Kollam 1,685,044 474,071 423,745 Pathanamthitta 694,560 56,457 481,602 Alappuzha 1,457,188 208,042 441,643 Kottayam 963,497 116,686 871,371 Idukki 566,744 81,222 480,108 Ernakulam 1,444,994 451,764 1,204,471 Thrissur 1,761,842 488,697 720,152 Palakkad 1,802,766 703,596 109,249 Malappuram 1,057,418 2,484,576 175,495 Kozhikode 1,669,161 1,078,759 127,468 Wayanad 392,141 209,758 175,495 Kannur 1,480,748 665,648 261,090 Kasargod 705,234 413,063 84,891

Someone added 2011 district details to the main Kerala page, I've since moved it to this page replacing this old table which I put above for reference. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 05:23, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

References

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Religion in Kerala/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

This article has adequate content, images and References. So, it deserves a B-class rating. I would be happy if the references were properly formatted. KensplanetTC 07:33, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Substituted at 01:15, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

What is the order of religions?

In the article Christianity and Islam are placed after Judaism and Jainism. What is the order followed here? If you sort the religions according to population, Hinduism should be followed by Islam and then by Christianity. On the other hand if you are following alphabetical order,Buddhism should be in the first place followed by Christianity. In either manner the current order of sorting is unacceptable. - Thazhemon (talk) 02:16, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Christianity in Kerala

<<However, the story of St Thomas coming to India in 52 CE has been contradicted by a recorded archives than some recent political publishers. There was a Thomas who came, but he was a Syrian merchant, Thomas of Cana, and this happened around 500 or 600 CE. In-depth historical research on this topic can be found in the book [32] by a Canadian author and a former Christian monk Ishwar Sharan and research conducted and published by Madras Courier.[33]>>

These lines along with references provided are of the adamant critique of Christianity Ishwar Sharan who is claimed to be a Hindu monk. If there is anything that violates the existing traditions of Christianity in Kerala it should come from a very secular source. As Ishwar Sharan who belongs to another religion (here a claimed Hindu monk) is a devout critique of Christianity doesn't classify as a secular source, hence it should be deemed as a Right-wing(Hindutva) propaganda tool. Therefore the aforementioned sentence along with its source should be immediately removed from the Wikipedia page "Religion in Kerala". കർണ്ണൻ (talk) 13:56, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

കർണ്ണൻ - So, different sources give different "stories" and that is what the article represented until you started your deletions. It is not up to Wikipedia to decide which is right, so you need to show that the other story, and the source it is taken from, are totally unreliable. You may be right, but first we need to look into the sources. I see that, despite me asking you to discuss this matter here, you have immediately removed the section you don't like for a fifth time today - that is clear WP:Edit warring - Arjayay (talk) 15:38, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Religion in Kerala

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Religion in Kerala's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ht":

• From United Democratic Front (Kerala): PTI (31 January 2021). "Kerala: Hitting out at 'misrule' of LDF govt, UDF launches state-wide rally". Hindutan Times.
• From Mappila: "Kerala's Muslims record highest literacy". Hindustan Times. 28 December 2006.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 23:18, 21 May 2021 (UTC)