Talk:Rasheeda

BIG FAVOR

I am editing this article and the articles for her singles and albums and discography etc. heavily! It's all a mess. NO REVERTING OR EDITING. This needs fixing. The article sucks atm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.57.101 (talk) 06:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I like your post  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.40.180.2 (talk) 17:25, 8 October 2013 (UTC) 

Fair use rationale for Image:Datypeofgurl.JPG

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File:Rasheeda.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Merger Proposal

I propose that Rasheeda discography be merged into Rasheeda. Most artist pages have their discographies integrated in the article of the artist and the page Rasheeda discography doesn't seem to work as a standalone article. Joliv (talk) 21:30, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Resheeda was actually born in 1975 not 1982. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Delilah84 (talk • contribs) 00:03, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Birthdate

I am about to delete all mentions of the birthdate from this article. This is because:

• The birthdate currently listed is not in the source listed for the birthdate, which merely lists the age of a person by that name.
• The in-article discussion of the birth date says that there are multiple conflicting sources about the birth date, but cites only one, a press release, rather than the articles that it claim exist, which may be more reliable sources
• For us then to say that there are sources that say both, but to announce one as the correct one original research. If there was a reliable, third-party source discussing the conflicting dates, that would be a different matter.
• It is not so vital that we list a birthdate that we should do it improperly.

Please do not readd birth information until there is better, clear sourcing. (Added: Also removed graduation information; see this Reliable Sources Noticeboard discussion on use of classmates.com --Nat Gertler (talk) 15:31, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Rasheeda's age at time of marriage

NatGertler reverted my addition to the Personal life section, asserting in his edit summary: "no need for age there, particularly to that level of precision." Normally, I would agree. However, this week has been anything but normal for Rasheeda.

Please indulge me while I explain, since I am deliberately citing stories published online that might not pass muster for inclusion in our article space. First is the tabloid news website TMZ, of which Wikipedia advises: There is no consensus on the reliability of TMZ. Although TMZ is cited by reliable sources, most editors consider TMZ a low-quality source and prefer more reliable sources when available. Offered here for background only, then, on April 16, 2020, TMZ reported:

"Love & Hip Hop Atlanta stars Kirk Frost and Rasheeda are laughing off rumors he adopted her as a teenager and then married her when she was 17. A twitter user ... accused Kirk—without any evidence—of adopting Rasheeda when she was 15, having relations with her as her parent when she was a minor, and getting married when she was 17 and he was 30."

Similarly, BET.com reported: "Rasheeda addressed the teenage bride rumors herself in a followers comments last week, but things have gotten so out of hand, that she had to join forces with her husband to squash them once and for all in a video the couple posted to social media."

References

In observing the often sarcastic and sometimes nasty responses on Twitter to this story, I have been struck by how many of those tweets mention Wikipedia. It's clear that both supporters and critics of Rasheeda rely on Wikipedia to help them sort out the truth of these spurious allegations. That's why I copyedited the sentence in question. "On December 18, 1999, at age 23½, Rasheeda married Kirk Frost."

Please, let's be precise about how old she was at the time. It will help dispel these ugly rumors. NedFausa (talk) 16:59, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining that edit, which you seem to understand seemed odd without context.

There is zero need to be precise to the degree you were, and I cannot think of another instance where we refer to anyone on Wikipedia over the age of 5 in terms of half-years. (There are some cases where we are precise to the day, but the ones that come to mind are in the "oldest person" category, and thus that precision is called for.) Saying she was 23, would be sufficient to disprove the claims that she was 17 at time of marriage.

Having said that, our basis for determining that age is less than ideal. The year of birth, which has been a problem for this article in the past, is now sourced to an off-line source; while that's sufficient to meet WP:V, it's sub-optimal. Using her tweet as the basis for her wedding date would generally be sufficient source... except if there's contention over it, then we get into the WP:SELFSOURCE exception for WP:EXCEPTIONAL claims, a category which includes "Challenged claims that are supported purely by primary or self-published sources". So what you're saying is that we have to have that information in here because the claim is being challenged, when the fact that the wedding date is being challenged makes our source insufficient.

Rashida's birthdate has been a problem here for years; back in 2018, there were statements in the article noting that various sources had her birthdate as being different years. It's still not hard to find a source claiming 1982 as her birth year - Google does at this moment. As much as there may be a call for accurate information at this moment, we should be careful not to make the claim that we have answers to fuzzy questions. --Nat Gertler (talk) 18:46, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

NatGertler: Thanks for your response. "Saying she was 23," you write, "would be sufficient to disprove the claims that she was 17 at time of marriage." Accordingly, I have restored at age 23 without the fraction. As for her year of birth, our Infobox yesterday claimed 1982, a date introduced by IP 137.25.103.243 on April 15 and thereafter subjected to steady edit warring until the page was protected at my request.

Once the dust settled and I'd had a chance to research it, I satisfied myself that 1976 is her year of birth. You observe that it is "sourced to an off-line source; while that's sufficient to meet WP:V, it's sub-optimal." To address your concern, I have appended a URL to the Herald & Review newspaper citation, and supplemented it with another such citation. I placed these in chronological order in the Infobox.

References

Her wedding date is, I agree, more problematic. I wonder if we should restate the claim so as to not use Wikipedia's voice.

Change from On December 18, 1999, at age 23, Rasheeda married Kirk Frost.

to Rasheeda has said she married Kirk Frost on December 18, 1999, at age 23.

Would that help? NedFausa (talk) 21:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

The linking on the birth year certainly helps. The proposed phrasing for the wedding date, however, doesn't work, because it's false. She neither says that's the date of her wedding (although it's strongly implied), nor does she state her age at the time. That's like if i say "Mom made a pie that was big as all Montana!" and you cite me as saying that my mother's pie was 147,040 square miles. --Nat Gertler (talk) 21:54, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

NatGertler: I have discovered an official primary source proving that December 18 is not the date of her marriage (although 1999 is correct). I'll remove December 18 from the article space. If you'd like an image file of said document, please email me. At the moment, I can't imagine how to cite it, but perhaps you know of a way. NedFausa (talk) 23:52, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

NedFausa:Per WP:BLPPRIMARY, "Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person." (One has to be careful in particular with marriages, as there can be multiple dates that can be considered the marriage date, whether it's the wedding or some aspect of the completion of the paperwork. --Nat Gertler (talk) 00:39, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Birthday problems continue

I just removed the birthday given. A couple sources were being combined to build a birthday. This runs into two problems within our rules and guidelines.

• WP:BLPDOB tells us that "Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object to the details being made public." Since none of the three sources used actually had the specific date that we were listing, we have not shown that any source gave it. And that's leaving aside the question of whether two references within a local paper counts as "widely published".
• WP:SYNTH tells us that we should not be combining references to build a fact, which is what we were doing to assign a specific year to the birthday.

One thing to remember is that the birthdate isn't that important. WP:BLPDOB makes it is something we can (and often should) simply do without. --Nat Gertler (talk) 03:09, 24 August 2021 (UTC)