Talk:Rammstein/Archive 2

Tanz Metal

I always wonder about the word creations of the yankees. Noone ever used the phrase "Tanz-Metal" or "Dance Metal" to describe the sound of Rammstein. Noone in the world uses this word, neither in Germany nor in USA, so whoever created this senseless crap, just delete it before it takes place somewhere else than here .. to the word-creator: furnish information before profiling urself .. to the writers: delete or replace it 83.135.176.208 03:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Acctually a simple google of the term "What Genre is Rammstein?" expanding it to "What genre is Rammstein, tanz" gets even more results, some of which yeild these links;

• Alternative Metal, Heavy Metal, Industrial Metal, Progressive Metal [1]
• Tanz-metal/Dance-Metal [2]
• Tanz-Metal/Dance-Metal Quote "In fact, one of the genre's icons, the German band Rammstein calls their music 'Tanz Metal', German for 'Dance Metal'."[3]
• Heavy Rock [4]

So if you do the google search I did you will find there are several search pages full of websites classifying them as tanz-metal, even Rammstein say they are tanz-metal, which I have quoted above.They are very deffinatally hard rock and metal. I say we keep the tanz-metal classification, but maybe expand by mentioning that they fit in many metal and hard-rock catagories because of the way their music style is ever changing, which can be read in this article [5]. - Faded_Mantis 09:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

im not saying that you are wrong or anything, but i thought their music was Industrial as a genre, not "Tanz Metal"Osmo250 18:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

im from germany and i never heard "tanz metal" --Gabbafnord 12:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I have never heard of "tanz metal", and have followed Rammstein for many years now. They may have used the term, and journalists may have used the term but it definately is not popular. I doubt fans could identify with "tanz metal". Jilenoftherazgriz 05:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Go here: http://www.unk.be/what_is_dance_metal_detailed.htm and read #4. Obviously at some point they used the term.

If you disagree so much, you better go through and replace all the Rammstein album genres, else the entire discog is a joke. --Ryouga 05:30, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree that it's "obvious" that they used the label. If they used the label, please find a source where they actually use the label. Or, at a minimum, identify those who are claiming they used the label (i.e. "So-and-so says that Rammstein has described their music as.."). But unless you actually have evidence that they did or did not something please don't claim that they did. I don't care about the label but I do care about properly sourcing factual claims. --ElKevbo 05:53, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

In this case, it is correct to say "they have been called Tanz Metal" rather than "They call themselves Tanz Metal" then. --Ryouga 06:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Cite the references you've already mentioned and I think you'll be okay. Others may take issue with the sources and whether or not they are reliable but your proposed statement is not very strong and those sources should suffice. --ElKevbo 06:45, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

It has been put in accordingly. If someone can "proper" cite/reference it that would be helpful, as I do not actually know how to myself. --Ryouga 23:04, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

look. A band isnt bound to a specific style or label, individual songs are. They can perform metal, heavy metal, techno, industrial, even emocore, what ever. Thoes songs can be labeled, but when you try to label a band that does all thoes things, thats when stupid words get made up like tanz metal. You can just say that they are a mostly metal and industrial band, with a lot of variation.

             --allatropic

It's Tanz Metal get over it Scorch Fire #113 04:35, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

ARE THEY NAZIS?

can someone please tell me if they are neo-nazis or not? cuz there are a lot of rumors about it.. and they have a song called HITLER.. so someone tell me..

They have a song called Hitler? I don't have their first two albums, but I can't recall a song with that title... anyway, no, they are not Nazi's in the slightest - just because they are German, many people ignorantly assume they are so. Infact, I heard that the band are extremely oppossed to Nazism. ≈ The Haunted Angel 23:30, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

No they do not have a song called Hitler. Its not a part of any of the albums (as I have all of them). Also, as Haunted Angel said, Rammstein is totally opposed to Nazism. I read that in one of Till's interviews (I think I can dig it up if u want me to corroborate this). edit: Ok u mite wanna chk this out: [6]--202.78.236.128 10:42, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

They are the opposite of nazis, they provoke. TheWizard 10:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Here are two citations taken from the German Wiki article [7] that should clarify the band's position. In 2001 the band wrote the song 'Links 2-3-4' in order to, in the words of keyboarder Flake Lorenz, "do away with the prejudice". He says: "We march, but we're left (wing), absolutely clearly fervently left." On another occasion (interview in the journal Stern) singer Till Lindemann deplores racist violence and argues that enough isn't done to bring the perpetrators to justice. These two examples should substantiate the point tht Rammstein aren't Nazis. --:Simha 05:24, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

There is a song circulating on various p2p downloading engines called "Hitler", but the song is actually "Böse" from "The Schlechts of Rammstein" and was merely renamed by someone. Jilenoftherazgriz 04:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Baby eaters?

Alright is it true that some of the band's songs translate into lyrics like "I'm going to cut open your fetus, and eat your baby" ? Or other horrific lyrics? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dragong4 (talk • contribs) .

Herzeleid.com has complete lyric translations. Although some lyrics may be offensive to some people, its just music, and if you dont like it, dont listen to it. Mein Teil translates to "My Part" which is slang for my penis, as posted below the song is about the cannibal that was in the papers a couple of years ago, and on German released singles actually has Till reciting an ad that the bloke put in a newspaper - „Suche gut gebauten 18-30 jährigen zum Schlachten“ Der Metzgermeister or - “Looking for a well-built 18 to 30-year-old to be slaughtered” The Master Butcher. Also, by Flake's admission, he has never officially described himself as part of the band, he "Just plays with them", although i think the vast majority of fans would consider him official. Squad'nLeedah 19:30, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

No. --Bjarki 20:47, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I just have to confirm the above NO.... These people play heavy metal but their lyrics aren't devil worshiping, uber-evil or stuff like that... Check out the lyrics on Hezeleid.com and see for yourself - Manwe 23:21, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know none of the lyrics translate to anything like this, There are people who despise rammstein and seek to soil their reputation and spread these rumours. A couple of Rammsteins songs do have slightly disturbing conotations, such as Mein Teil which is about the canabal who roamed germany a few years ago, but nothing about the band acctually taking part in suck practices. I agree with Manwe that you should just go read the lyrics on hezeleid.com - Faded_Mantis 09:18, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

The site is www.herzeleid.com, named after their first album. And the cannibal didn't roam Germany, IIRC he only ate "a part" of one man. Hence the title of the song Mein Teil => My part. You're right that other songs have unsavory concepts e.g "Stein um Stein" is about entombing a person alive, "Tier" is about incest, and most of their first album is pretty extreme. But their songs cover many topics, and I agree that there are people spreading untruths about the lyrics. Just go to herzeleid.com and/or get yourself a German-English dictionary. Imroy 11:57, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Even if Rammstein were to do a song about eating babies, which nowadays they wouldn't do anymore because they aren't quite so "extreme" anymore, they wouldn't do it like that, but in a more poetic way, more alluding to the practice of eating babies than actually saying it bluntly. And trust me, there is no such song. --NorkNork 16:37, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

They were extreme to begin with? --panasonicyouth99 9:55, 08 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, compared to now, they were more extreme back then, in lyrical content as wlel as in music. --NorkNork ^Questions? _fnord? 23:00, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

"Rammstein - Kokain" => "seh ich dabei zu wie ich gebäre // und fress die eigne Nachgeburt" "I see how I bear // and eat the own afterbirth/placenta". I hope that I've translatet well. --Athalis 08:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I have read through the complete lyrics of the piece "Kokain". The text is about a cocaine addict, cocaine is described as a "Weiße Fee" (White Fairy) who impregnates the addict. He (metaphorically) gives birth to a child and eats the afterbirth. This is obviously a metaphor about the pleasures and pains of addiction, the text says the addict resisted the impregnation. --NorkNork ^Questions? _fnord? 12:52, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

no it's definately not true,this is coming form a german who has been listening to Rammstein forever and even ttho they have some really strange lyrics, sometimes sexy, they don't talk about cutting open foetuses and eating babies. don't belivev me check out www.herzeleid.com and go into the lyrics section.

;p —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sinister666chick (talk • contribs) 23:21, 13 August 2004 (UTC).

No, Rammstein is just a good scape goat for Americans because most people can't understand their lyrics. Kritish5951 00:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Zwitter has an interesting translation though again to each his own, I don't care about swears or disturbing crap in songs, you listen to songs for music not to get angry about lyrics. gravediggerfuneral

Haha, Zwitter's lyrics are... well, fantastic. Then again, I've found most of the Mutter album is a bit twisted, lyric-wise. ≈ The Haunted Angel 17:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Belsan

The Russian authorities claimed that the hostage-takers had "listened to German hard rock group Rammstein on personal stereos during the siege to keep themselves edgy and fired up."

I recall reading in the original article that the Chechans listened to "German hard rock on personal stereos during the siege to keep themselves edgy and fired up" but I do not remember an actually citation of Rammstein. Maybe someone sould look into this.

It was specifically cited in the Independent article of 18 October 2004, which is referenced in our Rammstein article. -- ChrisO 00:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

And having to listen to Shannon Noll makes me want to murder Aussie Idol wannabe's but that aint his fault, and therefore not relevant to him or any article about him. Squad'nLeedah 19:38, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Soundtrack Listing

• FeardotCom "Sonne"
• How High "Du hast"
• Wing Commander "Eifersucht"
• See No Evil "Mein Teil"

are not listed on the official site of Rammstein. Please quote the source for these o else there must be ommited. Vivek 10:26, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Should we delete RammsteinClub?

Hi, all. Here, CHucky (Spain). I've seen we have RammsteinClub in the list of External links / Non-English Fansites. This is a very creepy site, that claims to be "Official" (while it's well known that there's no Official Fan Club but Fan Area) and charges 10 euro for teens to be members. Shame! It's well known among Rammstein wold that this site is there only to make money on Rammstein; they even have an online illegal shop where they sell staffs related to Rammstein.

So, my question is: should we delete this page from External links list? It's just to not-promote this site.

See you!!! --CHucky 21:37 14 March 2006(UTC)

Wikipedia is not a web directory, so that entire list of fansites should probably go. But if you just want to start with RammsteinClub, feel free to remove it. ~MDD4696 22:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!--CHucky 12:43 15 March 2006(UTC)

Rammass

Some clown changed the name to rammass throughout so I have spent the last 10 mins fixing. I swear I will kill that guy for wasting my time if I find out who he is.

If you click the history tab at the top of the article, you can do a revert. Just click on a previous version of the page (click on a date), then click edit and save. See Help:Reverting. ~MDD4696 22:46, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

That dumbass kid is from Livonia, New York from an ip check. some village in the middle of nowhere. he must have nothing better to do.

Petah Tikva Synagogue

Yesterday I add to the Rammstein article a small paragraph about the desecration of "The Great Synagogue" in Petah Tikva, though it seems it has nothing to do with Rammstein, their name was sprayed on the Synagogue's floor along with satanic and neo-nazi symbols and the "Jerusalem Post" called Rammstein - "Black Metal". I think this info is "worthy" of being on this wikipedia article yet it was deleted, my question is simple. why? AnoreX 10:27, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, I think a lot of us fans are simply sick and tired of Rammstein being misunderstood and mischaracterised in the mainstream media. So there is a desire (bias) to tone-down or remove anything linking the band to neo-nazis or anything like that. Personally, I'm sick of still seeing people associate "German" and "Germany" with "Nazi", fifty years after the end of WWII. That's at least two generations! The German people are still suffering because of what a crazy Austrian did in the time of their grandparents.

Secondly, it doesn't really have much to do with the band. Ok, so someone wrote their band name. That's really the only link. The band weren't involved in any way, and yet this incident shows up in an article about them? That doesn't seem fair to me. Do the articles of other bands mention every time their name is graffitied somewhere?

Lastly, I think this is a case of recentism. Ask yourself, will this be relevant in ten years time? If it's part of a significant pattern of vandalism in Israel or elsewhere, then it should be noted. But otherwise, no. Imroy 14:56, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't misunderstand me, I too hate the way the media brands bands, esspicaly metal bands as nazies,devil worshpiers and the like.

But, I put that info on this article not because it shows that Rammstein are neo-nazies who want to take over the world and send everyone not "Arian" to their death.

I put that info becuase it shows that Rammstein entire "look" is often misunderstood as extreme-right wing, that's all. AnoreX 15:51, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Lyrics

Doesn't the following section belong under lyrics rather than style?

Despite Rammstein's brutalist image, many of its songs lyrics demonstrate a certain sense of humour. "Zwitter", for example, is a bizarre take on narcissism (and bisexuality) through the persona of a hermaphrodite:

Wenn die anderen Mädchen suchten (When the others searched for girls)

Konnt ich mich schon selbst befruchten (I could already fertilize myself) Similarly, the song "Amerika" features a tongue-in-cheek chorus:

We're all living in Amerika

Amerika ist wunderbar (America is wonderful) We're all living in Amerika Coca-Cola, Wonderbra! (for one chorus, this is replaced by "Coca-Cola, sometimes war") Some of their songs show unexpected influences. "Dalai Lama" is an adaptation of the famous poem Der Erlkönig by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. "Hilf mir" was inspired by the short story "Die gar traurige Geschichte mit dem Feuerzeug" (from "Der Struwwelpeter") by Heinrich Hoffmann. "Rosenrot" is inspired upon the poem "Heidenröslein" by Goethe and the story "Schneeweißchen und Rosenrot"

Sabbre 23:00, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Du Reicht So Gut (You smell so good) could probably be put in that basket too :P Squad'nLeedah 19:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Mein Teil

Could people please stop changing the section on lyrics relating to the lyrics of Mein Teil? Please read the entire lyrics. Then you'll find that, in the last chorus, the line "Yes it's mein Teil – nein" is sung[8]. Thank you. Sabbre 16:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Are those official? Because in the CD booklet that line is just not printed at all...I agree that it does say "Yes it's Mein Teil" but the booklet doesn't include the line at all. --NorkNork ^Questions? _fnord? 16:29, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I can't be sure, as I don't have a copy of the booklet. But it is a very high quality site, and all the other lyrics seem to be correct. All these sites have the same version: [9], [10] ,[11]. Sabbre 20:19, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I have the original booklet, and as I said, there the line is just ommitted completely. But if several sources support it, it seems to be accurate. --NorkNork ^Questions? _fnord? 14:29, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Just let "It's mein Teil", even though their are no proofs at all (in fact, the german word "Jetzt", which means "now" is very similar pronounced as "Yes" - but on the other hand, Amerika from the same album has great focus on english words, and even most of the german fan base consider it "Yes it's mein Teil").

"Ja das ist mein teil, NEIN" (Yes that is my part, NO!" is what screams out at me at the end of it. Try turning up your CD players! :) Squad'nLeedah 19:44, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

There defintely is a "Nein" at the the end of the song. I checked the live-version from Völkerball.

Stop Changing Who the Lead and Rhythm Guitarists Are!

People keep changing between Paul and Richard for lead and rhythm guitar, make up your mind as to which one it is, but make sure it's the right one.

Richard is the lead and Paul is the rhythm thus its currently incorrect, someone fix it.

New picture

Hey it's cool that the page keeps getting updated, but the new feature up top doesn't seem representative of the band. More of a joke than their usual appearance. -Iopq 08:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

citation

Would http://www.oomph-supernova.com/band/history/ this qualify as a citation for Rammstein saying they were heavily inspired by Oomph!? Oomph Supernova is a rather reliable fansite for Oomph! and he's a few interviews with Oomph!, so I'd imagine it'd be accurate Stormscape 11:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

New German Hardness?

This is a new genre classification as far as I can see. Apart from a minimal article on here, there's no reference for it. Rammstein have always been cited as industrial metal. It's a bit late in the day to be creating new Germano-centric genres, when they've been in the global mainstream for 10 years. I know it's a literal translation of a German idiom, but it really doesn't apply here. Cain Mosni 14:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Actualy their genre is called TanzMetal AKA German hardness, Most new-age german bands adopted that genre more info: http://www.eraseronline.com/styledisplay.php?Style=21 -- 15:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Well as that article clearly states - TanzMetal is only something Rammstein dreamed up to describe themselves (more as a literal description than a genre definition). I've never seen any interview or other citation equating that with NDH - except this personal site you reference, and which doesn't qualify by Wikipedia standards as a definitive source. I remain to be convinced, but the assertion in the article is acceptable as it stands. NDH is really only a recognised movement within Germany (understandably), and for global consumption Rammstein are commonly considered to fall into the admittedly very broad church of "industrial" or - as you rightly say - "industrial metal" music, alongside the likes of NIN. Cain Mosni 18:14, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

A search of the official Rammstein website—either the English or German page—returns no instances in which either the Tanz-Metall or Neue Deutsche Härte term is used. My vote is for removing the references to these from this article still such time as a verifiable source can be cited.—Asatruer 21:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

TanzMetal is acceptable - it has featured in a number of published magazine interviews, particularly around the time of the Mutter tour in 2001, although I don't have any such hard copy to hand. It's not a genre, since it's not a term anyone applies (to my knowledge) to anything else. It is, however a fairly accurate self-created description (but citable) of the their musical output. NDH? Well I think My stance on that is clear... Cain Mosni 10:46, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

NDH is more specific. Look at the German wikipedia... -Iopq 17:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

You're making my point for me - NDH has limited recognition outside Germany. NDH is - by its very definition - a German movement. This being the English language Wikipedia, the article makes reference to the NDH movement in Germany, and rightly goes on to define the globally accepted genre as Industrial Metal (or would do if the NDH flag-wavers didn't keep upsetting the balance). Besides, just because one WP happens to say it doesn't make it any less subject to the rules of verification. You can't seriously expect to cite another facet of the same project as supporting corroboration. You risk a circular, but otherwise unsubstantiated reference. Cite one reputable source - just one - where the band themselves claim to be NDH, and there ceases to be an argument. So far no-one has come up with the goods. Cain Mosni 23:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

We have NDW, why not NDH? I don't see Nena being classified as synthpop in her article, which would be the American equivalent. -Iopq 15:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

This is probably an issue of verifiable information. It is possible that there are verifiable refenrences to Nena's music being Neue Deutsche Welle. There have been no verifiable references or citations for Rammstein calling their music Tanz-Metall or Neue Deutsche Härte found yet.
—Asatruer 13:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Results 1 - 100 of about 15,600 for "Rammstein" "Neue Deutsche Härte". (0.39 seconds)

I'm a bit lazy to look through all of them, but there are a lot of articles about Rammstein that refer to them as NDH.

I liked this one: [12] -Iopq 00:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Finding a Reliable sources from a google search will probably be rather tricky, not to mention that most pages found will probably only happen to mention both Rammstein and Neue Deutsche Härte without actualy stating that Rammstein is a Neue Deutsche Härte band. Take for example the link provided, at no point in that article does the author make the statement that Rammstein is a NDH band.
—Asatruer 13:57, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Rammstein's commercial success opened the door for pop music in the German language and inspired scores of imitators. But the Neue deutsche Harte - the new German hardness - was, of course, anything but new."

Are you really implying that this doesn't call Rammstein NDH in any way? It is obviously referring to Rammstein.

[13]

Rammstein , a German Neue Deutsche Härte (90's hard rock and metal music) band, formed in 1994.

[14] just lists all the NDH releases listing Rammstein and Oomph! albums

-Iopq 03:27, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

For the first quote it more easily reads that the score of imitators are the Neue deutsche Harte, rather than Rammstein being Neue deutsche Harte.
Even as a single source, not to mention the other two links, it has trouble holding up when evaluating reliability.
—Asatruer 14:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, so Rammstein is not NDH, but its imitators are? How does that make any sense? Please, I can give you hundreds of articles that mention Rammstein as being NDH, but I doubt giving more than three is going to convince you more. You can always argue semantics to discredit sources, but of course everyone knows that when an article mentions that Rammstein is NDH, that's what it actually means. -Iopq 09:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Googling for "industrial metal" on rammstein.de/com reveals just as many results as doing the same for "Neue Deutsche Härte" does: none. The former is undeniably the more recognizable of the two, the latter is definitely the more "accurate", so why not state both and clarify it in the article? It seems silly to intentionally excise relevant information because it might be new to some. 154.32.28.145 08:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Google is not the only research avenue. There are plenty of published printed sources that refer to Rammstein as industrial, metal, and/or rock. As yet - now over 4 months since I first posed the query - no-one has come up with even a single reputable source for the assertion that they are NDH. One reputable source is all it takes, and the argument ceases forever. Just one required, and yet still nada. Lots of non-authoritative user pages the world over, for sure, but they're not subject to any kind of vetting or review before publication, and cannot be considered reputable for the purposes of verification. The greatest strength of the web is that anyone can publish anything. The greatest weakness of the web is that anyone can publish anything. It all needs to be treated with a healthy dose of scepticism.

Formally published commercial or academic material is (of legal and academic necessity) subject to very careful scrutiny before publication, and citations are hence deemed reliable. It seems to me that very few people here have bothered to read up on what is and what is not defined as reliable by WP policy. Cain Mosni 14:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing up the policy details! Given that virtually all of the NDH edits come from anonymous editors (including one by myself, done on an untrusted public machine - 154.32.28.145 is me), would it be worth making this page Semi-protected? Given the policy details, NDH does indeed seem at best dubious. I'd maintain that it's worth a mention on the page (there is, after all significant mention of it), but I'll agree that the current focus reflected in the article ([15]) is not justifiable. Jokl 19:39, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Since this is more of a content dispute than vandalism Semi-Protected status probably would not be granted by an admin if it was requested. Full Protected status would be more likely to be granted, since it is used to break up edit wars. I am not sure this is necessary, but anyone interested can put in a request for either.
—Asatruer 22:50, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Genre/Music style and elements

There quite a few differences of opinion on what genre of music Rammstein is — unsuprisingly considering the subjective nature of the nuanses of musical styles. While I agree with Bloodofox's comment that Rammstein should more correctly be called Industrial Metal rather than classified by the broader Industrial Music, the correction that was made was to a sentance listing the elements of music incorporated into Rammstein's Tanz-Metall. Since Industrial Metal combines elements of Industrial and Heavy metal music, this brief list should include either Industrial Metal, or Industrial and Heavy Metal, but not Industrial Metal and Heavy metal as this would be redundant. Personaly I feel that including Industrial and Electronic music in the elements list is also equaly redundant, but every time I remove it it gets added back again. So it goes.
The elements list could easily be pared all the way down to just saying that Tanz-Metall is a form of Industrial Metal and be done with it, but that might not be quite as informative
—Asatruer 19:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

You would be extremely hard pressed to find anyone who would describe Rammstein has anything more than 'industrial rock' or 'industrial metal.' It's misleading to equate Rammstein to an unrelated musical movement. With what you've said in mind, I'll see what I can do with the current state of it. :bloodofox: 19:52, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I've simply deleted the "metal" portion and put in "Industrial metal" instead since it's a more applicable descriptor anyway. :bloodofox: 19:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

False Rammstein songs

I found a song that's called Rammstein - Hitler on the Internet. When I listened to it, it turned out to be a badly voiced over version of Sonne, made to, I believe, insult Rammstein by making them out to be Nazis. The first line goes: Hitler, Himmler, Rudolf, Auschwitz, Munham (I couldn't make this word out), Stuttgart, Goebbels, Furhen (I'm not sure about this one either), Yuren (nor this), (the last word was incomprehensible) The song then goes on to spout Nazi propaganda.

My question is, has anyone else found songs claiming to be Rammstein, but turning out to be someone else or a joke aimed at Rammstein? And if so, should we add it to the wiki? Also, is it legal for me to add the song in question to the wiki? --80.186.5.12 16:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC) a.k.a Sgt Doom

I seem to remember such tracks being mentioned in the "covers" section, as basically falsely-attributed covers. But that information seems to have been removed. Can anyone explain why it was removed (or am I mis-remembering things)? Imroy 18:42, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

There are a lot of songs claiming to be Rammstein's, and I guess those are too many to have a place in the article. However, I think "Hitler" is the only cover of a Rammstein's song, all the other songs are by other famous bands or artists, and I don't think we can catalogue all of them. Actually, as "Hitler" is a special one, we probably could write something about it in the article, just to tell the non-fans Rammstein is NOT a neo-nazi band. What's more, the first "sentence" in the false song is "Hitler, Himmler, Rudolf, Ausschwitz, München, Stuttgart, Göbbels, Führer, Yuri, Berlin", so it's not very clever as you can see... --Dark Jin 10:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Not clever? I say it's pathetic and childish.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING^(Я) 07:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, actually. But the point is : do we write something about it? I don't think I can, because of my crappy English... --Dark Jin 08:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The opening song for Final Fantasy X, the "Zanarkand blitzball" song, is claimed to be Rammstein on various P2P servers, but it really doesnt sound like them at all. The "Hitler" song is often "Böse", just renamed. Jilenoftherazgriz 05:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps we could add it to the Controversies section? --80.186.5.12 18:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC) a.k.a Sgt Doom

I don't really think this is notable enough to be included in the article, most p2p systems are full of junk like this. What makes this particular song so special? --Bjarki 21:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Probably not, but it does exemplify the reasons for writing Links-2-3-4. On balance I don't think it's a good idea to mention any specific examples. I'm tempted to cite WP:BEANS. Mention it and people will go hunting, and it might encourage more cruft. Cain Mosni 23:33, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Theres a song called "Barbie Girl" by Aqua Boy thats often incorrectly labeled as "Barbie" by Rammstein. Its a very confusing story, maybe you should mention it somewhere in the article? It would be a better example than the Hitler song, since this is more of a joke than an attempt to discredit them.--134.241.44.152 14:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC) (Jake)

This is the same debate that put the authors of a novelty song "Kill the Wabbit" as being by, Ozzy Osbourne, Metallica, Kid Rock, Def Leppard and Slayer, none of those actually had anything to do with that song, the closest match being Metallica as it sounds somewhat like them. People put these things out to make themselves look good, Altavista and Bittorrent are bad for it, almost any Pink Floyd song searched for on Altavista will come up with about a dozen links to cover bands before you even get close to the real thing, and all claim to be authentic. Squad'nLeedah 19:53, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I was going to begin a new conversation, but this would appear the best place for my question. Anyway, I keep turning up a remix of "Sonne" on LimeWire P2P searches. The song is called "Sonne (DJ's Hardcore Underground Mix feat. Marilyn Manson)." While this song is quite good, dare I say better than the original, Marilyn Manson does not appear on the track, at least not on vocals. I've tried Googling the track and searching for an album featuring the song, but I only turn up a few MySpace blogs and other stuff with people talking about how much they like it. So I'm wondering if this is an actual remix, or just an already existing mix renamed by some smartarse (I haven't heard the "Clawfinger K.O." and "Clawfinger T.K.O." mixes). Anybody got an album featuring this song or is it a fake? Gamer Junkie 04:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Chartplaces

Hello, I'm a writer from the german wikipedia. I look for Chartplaces of Rammstein for wikipedia.de can you write down the Chartplaces of the Albums and Singles.

Example: Herzeleid Chartplace: 17 in Germany

Please wirte down in English.

Thank You Pyrotechniker 28.06.2006

New Herzeleid Cover

Fixed a little mistake in the Rammstein-Controversity-stuff. While it is true that Herzeleid has since been given a new cover, it wasn't all over the world. German/European versions still contains the old "master-race meets flower-power"-cover. As far as I know (I'm about 80% sure), only the (U.S.) american release has the new cover. Believe me. Besides: Why the hell did you erase most of the links to the fansites? It sucks! Nearly every piece of information in this article is taken from these sites, and it would just be fair to give them some credit. Virtually yours, John Doe

Nope. If you go to buy it in the UK, now, it has the new cover. I know - I have the old cover, bought way back. A two DJs I work both have the new covers. And that's what you find looking in the racks at various CD shops, here in the UK. Cain Mosni 11:14, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Not that Australia represents the rest of the world or anything... but down here I have never even seen the new cover in cd shops and i own the old cover version. - Anon - Jan 4 2007

under the "Shows" heading

Simulated sodomy and a dildo squirting liquor up to about four meters over the crowd (during the song Bück dich);

is it liquor or liquid that is sprayed as one is alcohol and the other is some fluid of unknown quality.

Should probably be liquid. -Iopq 00:09, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

At the UK shows in 2001 it was diluted Pernod or similar... Cain Mosni 11:16, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I stand corrected. -Iopq 03:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Pet Shop Boys

Does anyone agree with me when I say that a REMIX isn't the same as a cover? Because if so, the Pet Shop Boys should be mentioned else where on the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dyllholio (talk • contribs) .

A remix is not the same as a cover, true. - BalthCat 04:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Ref 7 ( WHY DID THE COLUMBINE SHOOTING HAPPEN? COMMENTS FROM RELIGIOUS SOURCES. ) is a joke.

I am not sure how much information in the Rammstein article has come from this source, but it is likely incorrect. The first section (concerning "possessed computers") is from Weekly World News. There are also various links to TheOnion.com. No idea how anybody believed this BS in the first place...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.68.141.212 (talk • contribs) .

That article simply states "Quite a range of root causes of the Columbine tragedy were proposed:". It doesn't say that any of them are correct, just that religious sources offered them as explainations for the Columbine massacre. It doesn't argue the claims, although it does offer some info on Rammstein, possibly because many Americans still don't know much about them. That list is just amazing. I didn't know people still believed in such superstitions. "Any PC built after 1985 has the storage capacity to house an evil spirit."! --Imroy 21:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

The reference being used doesn't mean the article uses much of the content, or that they're believable. Click the ^ beside any reference to see what sentence it is referring to. It's simply a reference to show the nature of some of the criticism. Right or wrong, they said it, so it was referenced. - BalthCat 03:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

History Section

Why doesn't this article have a history section like other bands' articles? The information about their history is currently spread around the whole article. It would be better to have a history section organized chronologically. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Oagersnap (talk • contribs) 12:08, 2006 November 8 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome.
—Asatruer— 19:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Und vor Paris steht mickey Maus

Hey, in the song Amerika, in the mentioned part above, rammstein is making a reference to Paris Hilton, right?

No, that's a reference to EuroDisneyland. --NorkNork ^Questions? _fnord? 13:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

lol, thank you.

rofl

That line translates to "and in Paris stands Mickey Mouse". CardinalFangZERO 01:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

It's rather more "and Mickey Mouse is standing outside of Paris", slightly suggesting, I'd say, 'M.M. ante portas' "M.M. at the gates of Paris".--Simha 09:33, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Lyrics: Du Hast

Hi, I just made a change concerning the discussion of the lyrics to "Du Hast".
It was statet that "Willst Du bis zum Tod der Scheide (...)" tanslates to "Will you, till the death of the vagina (...)". Although this translation is correct considering the lyrics as were posted here, the correct lyrics of this part are "Willst Du, bis zum Tod, der scheide, (...)".
This is also part of traditional German marriage vows and simply means "Will you, till the death, that seperates, (...)".
There is nothing Rammstein has altered, although it may seem odd to even some German audiences as it - being a traditional vow and all - the usage of the word "scheide" for "(to) separate" is rather old-fashioned and rare in the German language nowadays. By the way, so I would say is "Scheide" for "vagina".
The source for this was probably [16], but even there the comma was still intact, as is in the CD-booklet. Of course, "Du hast" is a play on German vows, but in my opinion, no German-speaking person would interpret the lyrics as "Tod der Scheide", especially as singer Till Lindemann often uses old-fashioned and out-dated vocabulary and the vows are very well-established, and it is also the first time I read such an interpretation.
I am a native German speaker, and I really do not want to make fun of anybody, but when I told my friends of this, they all broke out in laughter.

I hope you see my point.

Btw, next time, I'll start the discussion first, then delete. Sorry, I'm new here ;-). Dontimo 11:12, November 18 2006 (UTC)

Thx, now it is better ;-)

Not everyone that listens to Rammstein is German. Rammstein knows this, they have a lot of lyrics that can be interpreted many ways, its why their music is so damn good. That one is well known for having multiple meanings depending on how you listen to it. English example - "Helping your uncle, jack off a horse" and "Helping your uncle Jack, off a horse" and im damn sure if i put that in a song id have a wikipedia edit war over what THATS meant to mean and where the comma is. Squad'nLeedah 20:04, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

"...This line is often mistaken for "You hate me"..." Imo it is not mistaken. Since german intonation of the words really lets the listener think "You hate me" is meant. After all a song is sung not written on a blackboard (or the like) when performed. And such a powerful aggressive "Du hast mich" can barely be interpreted as "You have (sth.) me". So when I listened to the song the first time, I thought it is meant to start like "You hate", "You hate", "You hate me". Imo not before the lyrics change into "You have asked me", one can really imagine that "hast/have" instead of "hasst/hate" is meant. Except one read the lyrics first. But the lyrics are one thing... reading between the lines another. Stating "...Wordplay is a fundamental component of Rammstein's lyrics..." and then saying "Du hast mich" is often mistaken for "You hate me" is lika an oxymoron. Sure if it is explicitly written "Du hast mich", than it is obviously not "You hate me" but "You have (sth.) me". Though if sung/spoken with an aggressive intonation almost no German will interprete it as "You have me". So I guess this part needs to be revised. What do you guys think?

Bück dich live in Berlin '98

Was it realy necicery to arrest them?

The arrest wasn't during that performance...It was in Worcester on 1998-09-23 during the FV 98 tour I think. And no, I don't think it was necessary to arrest them :P

Sorry next time ill be more specific eh? But back to the subject, If it wasent in berlin but in the U.S.A the freedom of speech would have been in violation and against constitutional rights. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryton (talk • contribs) 09:45, December 6, 2006

I'm sorry - what does this have to do with the Rammstein Wikipedia article? --ElKevbo 15:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Somebody placed "kiss my ass" in the very last of the article. I have erased it. 61.9.117.204 14:36, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

rammstein is it getting popular in the US?

ive been watching slowly and rammstein is makeing it to amarica in music stores to music videos and buck dish is playing on the radio so thats showing that they are herd but not known well you will hear the music but not media in this country much. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by tridentdc24

You're just now noticing that Rammstein is making it to America? I was able to purchase both Sehnsucht and Herzeleid in Best Buy when I started listening to the band back in 1997. Alabasterchinchilla 20:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Please don't use Wikipedia as a brag-blog. Thanks. Somnabot 23:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Pointless section

I think the subsection "The band" is pretty pointless. Isn't the whole article about the band?
Couldn't someone change it to a history section? I can't do it myself, because I don't know enogh about their history, but surely someone here would be able to do it? --Oagersnap 17:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Beslan and Rammstein

Excuse me, that notes about Beslan and Rammstein music is ABSOLUTE bullshit. Chechen terrorist inspired by German band? What idiot can believe that?

It's not so much about the lyrics, but about the aggressiveness of the music and the singer's voice. --NorkNork ^Questions? _fnord? 19:24, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Unless theres a lyric there that specifically says "Kids, go to your school and start shooting people" we can hardly blame a band, or even link that band, to stupid things that people do and then blame them. Do you think i would get away with stalking if i went to court and claimed "Daddy Cool said it was ok?" (I went to the dance, but I went all alone, I watched you, dancin' then I followed you home, Come back again, I'm just crazy 'bout you babe... "Come Back Again") you think anyone would take me seriously? Squad'nLeedah 20:10, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I´m from germany and we have a similiar discussion.Our politicians say that brutal computer games are making all children more cruel,because we had a massacre at a school,maybe 1 month ago.The intention of both discussions is the same:"does violence from the media change our thoughts and opinions about violence?"Personally,I think,is does not have any influence.It is different for eyeryone.Media does only change people if the social surroundings are wrong!!!!

((User:Der Scheich)) 21:36, 26 December 2006 (MEZ)

I think this sentence: "Jeff Weise of the Red Lake High School massacre was also a fan of Rammstein." should be removed from this article. Why is it so important that someone is a fan of Rammstein, I'm a fan too. Not that I commited a massacre but still. Maybe the terrorists of the WTC disaster were also fans of Rammstein, but no one cares? Right? Why should it be noticed that Jeff Weise was a fan of Rammstein? It's not like Rammstein tells people to commit crimes and such, it's just plain stupid to link crimes to someone's taste in music 213.10.13.249 18:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)Robert

Los.

If you listen to the song and read the lyrics at the same time, sie sind gottlos either works as "They were godless" or "They were god(cue drum fill)los" Los being the name of the song and the one word chorus. The other claim that it could mean They got rid of god makes no sense as the rest of the song is written in a completely different way. the claim that the first and third ways of translating it on the main page make no sense is false (they make perfect sense to me). and with the rest of the song in context, "They got rid of god" is in fact the only line that makes no sense, and also flies in the face of all current accepted ways of translating this song. Remember, in music, you can say a lot of things that make no sense "Who put the bup, in the bup shoo bup shoo bup?" as long as its still in some context with what comes before and after it. "Who put the ram in the ramalamadingdong?" Squad'nLeedah 20:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand what you're saying. --Oagersnap 23:13, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The song Los is meant to have many meanings as the word Los can mean either -less as a suffix or something similar to 'Go!'. It is meant to be ambiguous, fitting in with Rammstein's style of lyrics. Tainted Deity 18:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Perfect explanation :) Jmlk17 19:02, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

(Minor) planet named after Rammstein

I don't know were it would fit nice in the article, but Rammstein had a minor planet named after them in 2006: http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/special/rocknroll/0110393.html

// s4ndp4pper 20:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

New band picture(s)...

Okay, I REALLY think the picture at the top of the page is a misrepresentation of what the band really looks like. It was just a joke outfit that they wore for a couple of pictures and for promoting Amerika (I think?). I've had this picture for a while, and I've gotten it from a friend before that. http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3871/ram79bn.jpg . I think it's a bit more of an accurate picture of what the band's usual image right now.Flubbernugget 00:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I Agree with you about it being a mis-representation. But that picture you have is a little old, too.

The band prefers men over women but will have both

Some "clever" individual added that to the "The Band" section, i've deleted it and hope to never see it again.

Rammstein formed in 1972?

Last time I checked Rammstein was formed in the early 1990s, so why would someone be careless enough to tell the rest of the world that Rammstein was formed in 1972? What really pisses me off is that your fellow wikipedians would corrupt and contaminate this mantle of knowledge with lies and fallacies for thier own perverted entertainment. Please, I enjoy browsing wikipedia and and I'm sure countless numbers of other people enjoy it as well. Please keep wikipedia pure and accurate for the rest of us. 70.79.41.203 18:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Schtiel

I will make this clear again; it isn't a RAMMSTEIN song.

So change it, stop whining. Nickoladze 04:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

How do I change the discography at the bottom?

Schtiel is a song made my Till and Richard for the 100th Harley Davidson anniversary in Moscow. I would classify that as Rammstein, personally.

It's not Rammstein mostly because Ollie, Paul, Christoph and Flake are left out. So it's 2/6 of Rammstein. Not even half

Recent Vandalism

I have recently been seeing tons of vandalism lately, at least two attacks a day if not way more. Anybody with ideas? Anyone thinks this should be protected? Tazz 18:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Citations

I've fixed a lot of the citations to make them comply with Wikipedia format regs but I'm not sure if I should get rid of the "lack references/citations" disclaimer at the top of the page. Anybody else have any thoughts on it? Leopold III 13:48, 10 April 2007 (UTC)Leopold III

Tidiness of Article

I'm not moaning or b*tching but to me this article is really in need of a good clean up, i mean it just looks un-organised and very messy. I am a huge fan of rammstein and would love to see this page put right, anyone up for it or would everyone be happy if i took up the task??? let me know what you guys and gals think. Cryo enix 22:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

If you have any ideas I'd be more then happy to help out - I'll also take a look through the article, if there's anything I see could be improved I will do so. ≈ The Haunted Angel 22:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Well i do have a few ideas, like the soundtrack and film features could be moved to the discography section, and the band's history seems to be scattered around the article a bit randomly, most of it could be incorperated into one section under band history. Just throwing those ideas out there. Cryo enix 15:48, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The general theme of articles is to include such film appearances in the Discography section - moved. The rearrangement of the band history is something I will help get round to when I have more time. ≈ The Haunted Angel 16:48, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

'Shows' section

You think this needs to be an entirely new article by itself? It seems a little untidy to me... And Rammstein shows deserve an article on it's own, considering they are one of the best live bands of the time. It would be cool to just have a little paragraph outlining the use of pyros etc... and then just have a link for a main article.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Caboose90 (talk • contribs) 23:47, 21 April 2007 (UTC).

I completely agree with what you are saying here. Their shows should get their own article. If some users can gather information/sorces on their shows and it is enough to warrent an article i see no problem with it. Anyone agree or disagree? Cryo enix 02:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I dunno, I just don't see an article on their live shows lasting that long. I mean, Kiss had pretty out-of-the-ordinary live shows, but does that have it's own article (I'm actually asking, because I don't know if they do, lol)? But even so, I don't see what else you could really add to make it warrant it's own article. If you can find something good though, I will support the article. Until then, I'm a little skeptic. ≈ The Haunted Angel 08:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I doubt the article would last very long at all, if it wasn't even DB-deleted. I personally just don't think that their live shows warrant anything other than a section on their main article page. Jmlk17 20:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Aye, I agree as well, I just don't think it would last long plus would be a waste of time cause I think it will just end up being a worthless stub that could just go under their main artcle. Tazz 16:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

History and everything

does anyone agree that the whole page should be redone and reorganized? I can't get past that there isnt just a regular band history section, its not up to wiki standards really

Equalisation?

Can anyone possibly confirm this: "Rammstein rarely uses the 12K, 14K, and 16K equalization filter (equalizer) channels in their music." It is included in the Trivia section, and I have no idea how anyone can possibly confirm this - I've been a sound tech (recording and live) for the better part of the last 10 years and I've never heard of any band just 'not using' ceratin frequencies, because it is impossible! So to whoever put it up there, either confirm, clarify or otherwise remove this statement as it makes no sense as it is written, and as I don't know the material you got this information from I can't do it for you. What do you mean by 'equalisation filter channels'? The individual faders on a graphic eq? Or do they just cut the entire sound out at those freqs? Please, please clarify. ABVS1936 04:33, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

It's hardly trivia anyway - go ahead an remove it. ≈ The Haunted Angel 11:54, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I removed the whole Trivia section as it didn't really add anything of substance to the article and was as such unreferenced. If someone can verify anything that was in the section and incorporate it into the main article then feel free. Cheers, ABVS1936 17:19, 24 May 2007 (UTC)