Talk:Rajneeshpuram/Archive 1

merge notice

Hi, if you are here to discuss about the merger, I'd like to inform you that the relevant place to discuss it is Talk:Antelope, Oregon. Thanks, --Gurubrahma 13:07, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

references for further development

Here are a few useful references for expanding and balancing the article. If no one beats me to it, I'll get round to it.

• http://www.rickross.com/reference/rajneesh/rajneesh5.html summary and history
• http://www.wasco-history.r9esd.k12.or.us/comm/bigmuddy/gate.html photos of road gates
• http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0030-8684(199002)59%3A1%3C77%3AUABTFO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-U book for sale about it: visible first page
• http://www.rickross.com/reference/rajneesh/rajneesh21.html younglife dispute buying the land
• http://www.a2zgorge.info/community/towns/antelope.htm nice summary detail about effect on Antelope
• http://gesswhoto.com/sheriff-wasco2.html a law enforcement perspective
• http://www.croc.org/events/rogaine2007/bigmuddy2007.php Recent event at the ranch: 2007 US Rogaine championships (the sport of long distance cross-country navigation)
• http://www.wasco-history.r9esd.k12.or.us/map.html location of big muddy range (in lower right corner)
• I think it is located here
• http://home.att.net/~meditation/Weaver.html Jim Weaver reminisces
• http://www.clui.org/clui_4_1/lotl/lotlv10/rajneesh.html fact or gossip?

—EncMstr 01:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I just updated the Antelope, Oregon article (copy and paste city). Note that the a2zgorge.info site is a verbatim copy of Oregon Geographic Names (pages 27 and 797) and cite accordingly. The second half of that page has good info on Antelope, but isn't from ghosttowns.com as cited. Not sure where it's from but is likely also copied from something... Katr67 02:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the above sources, Jim Weaver's reminiscences are definitely not reliable! His article has Bhagwan and Sheela leaving Rajneeshpuram on the same day. Everyone knows that Sheela left first, and Bhagwan held press conference after press conference in Rajneeshpuram denouncing her, accusing her of having stolen money, etc. If he can get such basic things wrong, then I don't think we should be relying on the rest of what he's saying, unless it can be verified independently. 172.188.239.74 09:24, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I fear some of the other sources are not much better, just yellow press full of factual errors. For more reputable sources, see

• Lewis F. Carter, Charisma and Control in Rajneeshpuram: A Community without Shared Values (Cambridge University Press) 1990 ISBN 0-521-38554-7
• Frances FitzGerald, Cities on a Hill: A Journey Through Contemporary American Cultures (Simon & Schuster) 1986 ISBN 0-671-55209-0 (includes a section on Rajneeshpuram previously published in two parts in The New Yorker magazine, Sept. 22 and Sept. 29 1986 editions)
• Judith M. Fox, Osho Rajneesh. Studies in Contemporary Religion Series, No. 4 (Signature Books) 2002 ISBN 1-56085-156-2
• University of Oregon video on Rajneeshpuram
• Guide to the Rajneesh collection at the University of Oregon

172.188.239.74 09:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Good points. I was attracted to Weaver's bit more for the alternate perspective involving the BLM land swap and how it affected Bill Bowerman, not for timeline. Also the NO2 spigots and electronic eavesdropping setup aren't mentioned in much depth anywhere else. Incorporating all this will probably involve a lot of "some sources say.... others suggest..." to keep it balanced. —EncMstr 15:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Weaver's article are reminiscences written 20 years after the event; I have a feeling like a fisherman's tale, the fish gets bigger each time the tale gets told. If something's not mentioned by observers like Carter and FitzGerald who spent months on site at the time, doing very thorough research, then I don't think Weaver alone cuts the mustard as an encyclopaedic source. 172.188.239.74 17:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The Oregonian is running a 5-part series about the Rajneesh movement. There's some pretty good stuff in there, some of which I don't see in the various Rajneesh articles. For example, today's article (part 3) has some interesting information about how the homeless people brought in to inflate the voting rolls and how that backfired. -- Esprqii (talk) 17:27, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

POV tag on Analysis section

This section makes use of Richardson citations 12 times. It reads with a bit of a POV slant. I suggest clarifying that some of the statements represent Richardson's opinion. ←Spidern→ 20:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to add other analyses. I meant to, but never got round to it. A couple of papers in Aveling (ISBN 8120815998) may be useful. Carl Abbot (1990). "Utopia and Bureaucracy: The Fall of Rajneeshpuram, Oregon" The Pacific Historical Review, Vol. 59, No. 1. (Feb., 1990), pp. 77-103 could be mined further; I have a pdf of it which I could e-mail you. And I am sure there are other sources, in particular local writers in Oregon. Cheers, Jayen466 20:55, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Spidern, I had changed the tag to encourage editors to add balancing views by other authors. But no matter. Jayen466 19:49, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

That's fine, I just wanted it to have a higher visibility by being in the POV Articles for December 2008 category. Effectively, we're after the same thing here. ←Spidern→ 05:43, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Missing Details

I find this article to have missing details, such as Osho's claim that he was arrested without a warrant, tortured in jail, and fined $400,000. This information can be found here:

http://www.oshoworld.com/biography/biography8.asp --203.97.235.172 (talk) 01:40, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

And is this claim mentioned in any WP:RS third-party source? AndroidCat (talk) 04:35, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

New sources for use

• King, Tim (2010-01-29). "Amazing Images of Rajneesh Puram, Oregon's 'Bagwan Period'". Salem News. Retrieved 2011-02-04. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
• Zaitz, Les (2011-04-14). "25 years after Rajneeshee commune collapsed, truth spills out -- Part 1 of 5". The Oregonian. Retrieved 2011-05-02.
• Zaitz, Les (2011-04-15). "Thwarted Rajneeshee leaders attack enemies, neighbors with poison -- Part 2 of 5". The Oregonian. Retrieved 2011-05-02.
• Zaitz, Les (2011-04-14). "Rajneeshee leaders take revenge on The Dalles' with poison, homeless -- Part 3 of 5". The Oregonian. Retrieved 2011-04-19.
• Zaitz, Les (2011-04-14). "Rajneeshee leaders see enemies everywhere as questions compound -- Part 4 of 5". The Oregonian. Retrieved 2011-05-02.
• Zaitz, Les (2011-04-14). "Rajneeshees' Utopian dreams collapse as talks turn to murder -- Part 5 of 5". The Oregonian. Retrieved 2011-05-02.
• "Rajneeshees in Oregon: 25 years after the collapse of Rancho Rajneesh". The Oregonian. 2011-04-16. Retrieved 2011-05-02.
• "Rajneeshees in Oregon: The Untold Story". The Oregonian. 2011-04-16. Retrieved 2011-05-02.

I'm not sure if here or the Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) article would be the best place to develop these references. AndroidCat (talk) 04:32, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Tags: POV & UNDUE WEIGHT

have tagged for now. Currently, the bulk of the article rests on two sources, Latkin (1992) & Richardson (2004). Considering the dearth wealth of material out there, including the most recent Oregonian expose, a broader overview, using a range of sources, should not be that difficult to produce. --Semitransgenic (talk) 10:36, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I have to agree with this. I've lived in Portland since before this episode, & this article makes it sounds that the Rajneeshes were the victims & never provided any reasons for mistrust. They were like the neighbors or relatives who treats everyone with disdain & contempt, then wonders why no one likes them. Some of the accusations of ill treatment -- & the Islamic connection to the firebombing of the Hotel Rajneesh in Portland -- are news to me. As it reads at this moment, this article also minimizes the role of their infamous attempt to suppress voter turnout in The Dalles thru the 1984 Rajneeshee bioterror attack. Public opinion of the Rajneeshes, which had steadily deteriorated due to the insulting & combative language Ma Anand Sheela routinely used when making official statements on behalf of the group, & their paranoid level of secrecy that make the Scientologists look warm & friendly, went overwhelmingly negative when news of the salmonella poisoning hit. Maybe some of the rude comments claimed to have been said in the Richardson (2004) & Carter (1987) articles were actually said, but they were in response to steady goading from the Rajneesh side, which made indifferent (like me) or friendly locals upset with them. (I'm adding these comments to help explain why the tags are appropriate, & how this article can be fixed.) -- llywrch (talk) 03:24, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Weapons

The display of semi-automatic weapons acquired by the Rajneeshpuram Peace Force created an image of imminent violence. Which display was that? Or does it just mean the "public carrying" of weapons? Rumiton (talk) 14:21, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I rode into Antelope around this time and clearly remember seeing two men outfitted in pink suits, sitting in a Jeep Cherokee holding Uzzi machine guns outside of the then cafe. We left shortly after and ended up "road racing" the Bhagwan when he caught up to us in a Rolls Royce while being pursued by two Crown Vickies driven by his security detail. That guy could drive! It all ended when an Oregon State Police car went by in the other direction while at a high rate of speed. The Bhagwan and his crew pulled into a Highway Gravel Pit and I headed north to Portland. Never saw the OSP again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.229.180 (talk) 15:12, 27 January 2015 (UTC)