Talk:Punanai

Requested move 22 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved right now. There appears to be a lot of reliable sources below using both spellings. That said, there appears to be a lot of contentions about moving to Punani (Sri Lanka). If further, deeper investigation finds that Punani is the more commonly used name, then I see little reason for the mover to go about and WP:BOLDly move to Punani, Sri Lanka without further discussion. (non-admin closure) Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 23:51, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

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Punanai → Punani (Sri Lanka) – restore to correct spelling per GBooks (mainly re "tiger of Punani") and railway station platform sign. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 00:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

• Source needed: Google maps lists the location as "Punanai", but Google maps has been known to have inaccuracies. I have not yet seen anything to directly verify or refute your request. The article is presently a stub, and the inline citations are not fully formatted. If you have a source I can follow, please add it below along with Template:Reflist-talk. Thank you. — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 18:32, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

  I found sources for "Punani". I was hoping for a photograph of local signage in Latin script, but I couldn't find what I was looking for. — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 20:07, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

  Interestingly, a Google book search turns up numerous uses of "Punanai", including editions of The Man-Eater of Punanai. It appears both spellings may be used. Station1 (talk) 20:49, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

  With several books using the 'ai' spelling, it is a compelling question. Did the village change name/spelling? Is it a linguistical variation (one of the titles mentioning "Dutch")? Are both terms accurate, in which case which is the more common, and which is the official (or both)? Or, is it a spelling error that was repeatedly copied (as Norman Caruso of the Gaming Historian YouTube channel pointed out regarding sources believed to be accurate, containing inaccuracies)? — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 21:06, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

  What about the article's lede? It is written with the romanized Tamil and Sinhala spelling it as "Puṉāṉi". Surely that should be weighed into this discussion. — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 16:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

  The lede before these recent moves gave Punanai as the transliteration (Special:Diff/1017233451/1146251654). Note to closer: proceed cautiously with the post-RM close cleanup. Judging by the fact that the diff shows Punanai > Punani changes in the ref URLs, I suspect a hurried Find-Replace. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

  ...in light of the Find-Replace in the sources, I restored the old version. I can self-revert if that would be better. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 19:04, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

• Comment. Agree with above comment. If "Punanai" is correct, it serves as WP:NATURAL disambiguation, since there's nothing else on WP spelled that way. If "Punanai" is not correct, the article should be moved back to Punani, Sri Lanka (comma, not parentheses) per WP:NCGN. - Station1 (talk) 18:42, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

  I concur; if Punanai, it serves as it's own disambiguation. Otherwise, it is standard to disambiguate a Punani with a comma. — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 19:15, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

• Reverted a move [to Punani (village)] that occurred while this discussion was open. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Standard on Wikipedia as shown at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) is for comma rather than brackets for human occupied places. And to a countries subdivision, in this case the Eastern Province, Sri Lanka. So if Punanai is incorrect then Punani, Eastern Province would be the target. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 15:44, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

That's incorrect. WP:PLACEDAB asks us to use the country name, not the subdivision name. There are exceptions, but Sri Lanka is not one of them. 162 etc. (talk) 15:57, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

What it says is "In some cases, the article title should include additional text, such as a country name or province name," and "Places are often disambiguated by the country in which they lie, if this is sufficient." It then lists some, not exhaustive, examples. This does not mandate the use of country. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 19:55, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

The key part there is "if this is sufficient." Since there isn't more than one place in Sri Lanka named Punani, the country name is sufficient. 162 etc. (talk) 20:33, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

• @CambridgeBayWeather: @Chanakal: I have no objection to "comma, Sri Lanka" instead of "bracket Sri Lanka", but the WP:COMMONNAME of this village is clearly Punani. I'm sure Google Maps has reset because of profanity filters, which is fine for GMaps, but GBooks and the Railway timetable and platform sign and post office are all Punani. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:48, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

  I have no opinion on the name of the village the the comma rather than the brackets. I guess from the comments here that Punani

  has a rude meaning. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 15:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Punani (Sri Lanka). Support Punani, Sri Lanka per WP:PLACEDAB.Chanaka L (talk) 09:29, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The village is known as புனானை (Puṉāṉai) in the local Tamil language. The United States Board on Geographic Names' Ceylon, Official Standard Names Approved by the U.S. Board on Geographic Names from 1960 shows the name to be Punanai (p.278). The Sri Lankan Department of Census and Statistics' list of Division Codes shows the spelling to be Punanai (p.120).

The train station board sign is a red herring - Sri Lankan signs are notorious for wrong spellings. The law requires all signs to be in three languages (Sinhala, Tamil and English) but they are often translated by people who aren't proficient in all three languages and end up mangling the translations.

Unfortunately, thanks to Ali G, overgrown schoolboys have tried many times to rename the article Punani for cheap laughs. And, as it often happens now, this misinformation has crept into the mainstream thanks to the world wide web.--Obi2canibe (talk) 13:24, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

--- This is not the Tamil-transliterated Wikipedia. You may well be correct that Sri Lankan signs are often wrong but this is the name of the village in WP:RS English sources. A better solution to the stupidity that the village article will inevitably attract would be to page protect the village from novice "editors". In ictu oculi (talk) 07:54, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relist, for further discussion on whether the location is called Punanai or Punani; consensus is that if it is moved to Punani, it will be Punani, Sri Lanka BilledMammal (talk) 00:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: With so many conflicting sources given here that otherwise seem reliable, I recommend that an expert be contacted regarding the spelling of the village name. A Sri Lanka government office, or a university with Sri Lanka village research would be where I would start. For those here who may be unfamiliar, there is a process for having an email be authenticated and recognized by Wikipedia. I don't have the link handy, but there is a process when a Wikipedian conducts research via email. — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 17:30, 31 March 2023 (UTC) (expanded 17:48, 31 March 2023 (UTC))

  I think the process I referred to above that I remembered, was actually for media licensing (Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission), but I imagine the process for Wikipedia to hold a letter / email as a reference would be similar. — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 03:23, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

References

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Railway station platform sign photo

Photo in article on the tiger:

• first photo

Second photo:

platform again

confirmed by online timetable:

http://www.lktrains.com/schedule/station/Punani

— Preceding unsigned comment added by In ictu oculi (talk • contribs) 11:52, 25 March 2023 (UTC)