Talk:Progressive Youth Organization

Attribution of "Eternal Flame"

Hi Soman, I saw that you restored the sentence that mentions the publication "Eternal Flame". However, this sentence misattributes it to the PYO; per the provided source:

Secondly, there was Jerian-e Demokratik-e Newin, or the ‘New Democratic Current’, usually described as ‘Maoist’.39 Its members became known as Shola’i, after the name of its publication Shola-ye Jawed, or ‘Eternal Flame’, of which only 11 issues appeared in 1968. Jerian-e Demokratik-e Newin was founded by Abdulrahim and Abdulhadi Mahmudi, relatives of the late founder of Hezb-e Khalq/Neda-ye Khalq, Dr. Mahmudi, together with two Jaghori Hazara brothers, Akram and Seddiq Yari. In October 1965, this group established a clandestine organisation called Sazman-e Jawanan-e Mutarraqi, or the ‘Progressive Youth Organization (PYO)’, that never made its existence and name public, and finally ceased to exist in 1972.

This clearly attributes the publication to the NDC, not the PYO. Given the content of the sources you provided in the deletion discussion, maybe the NDC would be a more suitable subject for this article? It appears that the PYO was an offshoot of that parent organization. Actualcpscm (talk) 08:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

I think it is an error to presume that the New Democratic Current and the PYO were fully separate formal entities. There seems to have been some sort of grouping briefly before PYO was established, but seemingly not a full-fledged party. The Farsi Wikipedia article on Sholaye Javed ([1]) implies that PYO was the first organizational entity. The Farsi Wiki article also states that it was PYO that got the publishing license for Sholaye Javed (سازمان جوانان، در ۱۳۴۷ خورشیدی جواز نشر رسمی شعله جاوید), albeit the sourcing appears incoherent. The copies of Sholaye Javed doesn't carry the name of either entity, leaving the question of who was the publisher somewhat ambigous.

This review of a book on the New Democratic Current, also implies that PYO was the first organizational expression of the movement.

This BBC Farsi article talks about Sholaye Javed as the organ of the 'Progressive Organization', likely reference to PYO.

"PYO war auch unter dem Namen „Flamme“ (Shula-yi) nach ihrem Publikationsorgan Shulae-Jawid bekannt und trat für einen revolutionären bewaffneten Kampf ein, um eine neue Gesellschaft mit sozialer Gerechtigkeit" ([2]). And so forth. To complicate issues further, we have a Wiki article Shola-e Javid, which erroneously describes Sholaye Javed as a political party, whereas the term Sholayi was used as nick-name for the militants of PYO. I would suggest merging Shola-e Javid into the PYO article. I'm unsure of how to deal with the New Democratic Current as article topic, as I think that the term might be used for a tendency of organizations that might stretch beyond the existence of PYO. --Soman (talk) 13:00, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately I have no understanding of Farsi whatsoever, so those sources are "beyond my reach", but it sounds like you have a lot more thorough background knowledge on the topic than I, or I underestimated the amount of material available on this subject in other languages. What you're saying sounds very reasonable to me, though. Actualcpscm (talk) 17:40, 23 April 2023 (UTC)