Talk:Percy Thomas

Percy Thomas Architects article

I'm creating a Wikipedia article On Percy Thomas's architectural practice, under the name Percy Thomas Partnership (which was previously re-directed to Percy Thomas). According to the news reports about the practice at the time of its demise, in 2004, it was trading under this name (Percy Thomas Partnership), though I realise it traded under a number of different names over its 94 year history. I keep on coming across incredible landmark buildings designed by the company, they were definitely an important practice in architectural terms. Any help developing the article, with authoritively sourced information, will be gratefuly appreciated! Sionk (talk) 21:38, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Percy was my Great Grandfather. I may be able to help if you are still looking for information. 208.104.92.106 (talk) 23:37, 6 January 2016 (UTC)J271

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Anglo-Welsh

The lead stated he was English and has been updated to "Anglo-Welsh". Presumably British would be better for this English born son of Welsh father? Unles sources generally call him Anglo-Welsh (which seems unlikely). Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 12:06, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy, it would have to be noted that Titus Gold has been disputing/changing the nationality of many people with connections to Wales (mainly to Welsh and/or removing British) for months (e.g. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]) (The main articles I remember TG editing or recent), therefore likely a similar edit, with many being controversial but not all. TG states their rationale here as "Welsh father, English mother", not sure an individual is described based on their parent's ancestry.

Of the sources used in this article that I can access, none state nationality, although this states "one of Wales' architects" but not really nationality. However nationality on this article has been confusing, the article was created with "Welsh", changed to "British" by @Sionk and then changed to "English" by a IP. So maybe English was not fully accurate, but Anglo-Welsh is not a great replacement though. I assume it was changed to British because Thomas was President of the Royal Institute of British Architects. The change to English is likely a disruptive edit using purely their birthplace as the sole assumed reasoning.

Surely "English-born Welsh" makes more sense than "Anglo-Welsh"?

Prefer simply "British" or "English-born Welsh" over "Anglo-Welsh" (or "English"). DankJae 16:24, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, that is helpful. I was aware of multiple changes by Titus Gold, but wanted to take each change on its merits. I would propose reverting to User:SionK's "British" as being the best description here. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:33, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

"British" or "Wales-based British architect" would be non-controversial and accurate on the face of things. But there are quite strong arguments for describing him as Welsh (born in England to a Welsh father by virtue of his father travelling for work, moved to and grew up in Wales as a child, based in Wales for the vast majority of his career, competed at the Welsh Eisteddfod, returned from Manchester to marry a Welsh woman in Wales etc.). He definitely had undeniably strong connections. Personally I don't have a problem with "British", though I don't have a problem with "Anglo-Welsh" either (but I expect others will complain). We can't rescusitate him to ask his preference and quite possibly he was a pragmatic businessman who didn't put a great emphasis on his nationality or "Welshness". Sources about him seem to sit on the fence. Sionk (talk) 16:44, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Agree we should take each edit to nationality separately, and for Thomas there is a strong argument for Welsh due to his links to Wales. "Wales-based British" is slightly odd as Wales is (and as then) part of Britain and Thomas did work partly in England for a few years (but yes mostly in Wales). "Anglo-Welsh" I believe is not advised per WP:UKNATIONALS (but not compulsory) for the modern period, and wouldn't "Anglo" mean "English" nationality? which is why I suggested "English-born" rather than "Anglo" or "English", as I believe fewer sources if any state Anglo/English. British was the demonym of the state during his life and his citizenship so the non-controversial option. Maybe even omit nationality. DankJae 17:15, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks both. I don't think we should omit nationality, as per MOS:OPENPARABIO, nationality should be stated. British is the neutral option, and the nationality of the sovereign state. The Welsh connection can be unpacked in following paragraphs. I can live with Anglo-Welsh, but I think it is a poorer choice because Wikipedia has a global audience. Whereas UK nationals will naturally read "Anglo-Welsh" to be English-Welsh, this will not be true of all readers. I won't change it from Anglo-Welsh though, unless and until there is consensus for something else. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:42, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

I think he was Welsh, but we shouldn't describe him as such without citing a reliable source that does so. The ODNB (paywalled) doesn't give a nationality, nor does the obituary in The Times (18 Aug 1969). It may be worth searching for other obituaries. I would avoid 'Anglo-Welsh' which is often used in the context of Anglo-Welsh literature, and may refer to Anglophone Welsh people as well as to those with a dual identity. I favour returning to 'a British architect who worked in Wales'. We could mention his strong Welsh connections in the lead section, but I think this is unnecessary. Verbcatcher (talk) 22:17, 12 October 2022 (UTC)