Talk:Penny Thomas/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Mujinga (talk · contribs) 08:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Review progress

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Hi Lewolka I'll take this on for review as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Green/Meetup/4 Mujinga (talk) 08:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

OK I'm going to quickfail this now since the article is currently a long way from GA standards. Sorry for that, but I hope the comments I made can be helpful and I'm happy to clarify anything. Basically a quickfail can occur if any of the six criteria are a long way from being met and in this case I am already experiencing problems with 2 and 3. Mujinga (talk) 10:26, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

I should add the review is incomplete but I'd certainly be asking for a bigger lead and questioning some of the wikilinking eg London if we had gone further. Hope this isn't too discouraging and good luck with the article, I don't see why it couldn't be a GA in future. Mujinga (talk) 10:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

I completely understand, thanks for the helpful comments, I'll get to work fixing all that. Best Lewolka (talk) 10:30, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Copyvio check

Earwig doesn't flag much although I'd suggest changing up "Penny Thomas was born on 2 July 1979 in Durban, South Africa" because BJJheroes.com says "Penny Thomas was born on the 2nd of July in Durban – South Africa". the source used for this info I can't check, see below

Spotchecks

On this version:

• "In 2006 during a trip to Hawaii, she started training full time under Luis Heredia, a 5th Degree black belt under Rickson Gracie, from whom she received all her belts. In 2007 Thomas won silver competing in the Men's Gi black belt division at the 2007 Triple Crown Aloha State BJJ Championship.[11]"
  • first sentence not backed at all by source. second sentence is summarising:

RESULTS FOR 2007 ALOHA STATE CHAMPIONSHIP OF BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU

MEN'S NO-GI ADVANCED 149-161 2ND - PENNY THOMAS MAUI JJ

MEN'S GI BROWN BELT 1ST - LUKE HACKER LONGMAN 2ND - PENNY THOMAS MAUI JJ

... so silver is correct, event is correct, not seeing black belt but that might be my lack of knowledge?

• She stayed in California for 5 years with the Gracie Humaita girls team, becoming black belt Jiu-Jitsu world champion twice, Pan American champion and world No-Gi champion. In 2007 after defeating judoka Celita Schutz in the semi-final and Lana Stefanac in the +67 kg final[12]
  • The only thing this source backs is that she came first in the +67 kg final of the ADCC Submission Fighting World Championship 2007, because the source is simply a results list - the rest of the info is not backed

• During Grappler's Quest women's superfight, taking place at the UFC Expo in Las Vegas in May 2010, she submitted Shayna Baszler via rear naked choke.[16]
  • info verified ok, "submitted" is a technical term here?

• "Penny Thomas was born on 2 July 1979 in Durban, South Africa.[4]"
  • source unreachable

• "At the end of 2013 Thomas moved back to Maui to focus on teaching. In 2019 she returned to competition, winning silver at the IBJJF World Masters Championship.[22]"
  • same prob again, this is basically a results page only, so first sentence not verified, and for the second info is correct but prob best to specify it's "MASTER 2 / FEMALE / BLACK / MEDIUM-HEAVY"

Images

• One image which is relevant and appropriately licensed

Broadness

• I had a slight scare that Penny Thomas isn't notable, but I think she is, she has received significant coverage in reliable sources. However, right now the article is rather top-heavy on results. More about her the person could be added from for example Jits and OGC. Also reading BJJheroes.com it says "Penny Thomas is also a gifted mathematician having won an advanced mathematics tournament. Her outstanding attributes do not end with mathematics and sports, she has also won different awards as an artist." - this is certainly worth mentioning

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Copyvio check

Earwig doesn't flag much although I'd suggest changing up "Penny Thomas was born on 2 July 1979 in Durban, South Africa" because BJJheroes.com says "Penny Thomas was born on the 2nd of July in Durban – South Africa". the source used for this info I can't check, see below

Ychanged it for new source Lewolka (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC) Lewolka (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Spotchecks

On this version:

"In 2006 during a trip to Hawaii, she started training full time under Luis Heredia, a 5th Degree black belt under Rickson Gracie, from whom she received all her belts. In 2007 Thomas won silver competing in the Men's Gi black belt division at the 2007 Triple Crown Aloha State BJJ Championship."

first sentence not backed at all by source. second sentence is summarising:

Yrewrote first sentence supported by source, added context for second sentence with additional source, (she competed against men). Lewolka (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

RESULTS FOR 2007 ALOHA STATE CHAMPIONSHIP OF BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU

MEN'S NO-GI ADVANCED 149-161 2ND - PENNY THOMAS MAUI JJ

MEN'S GI BROWN BELT 1ST - LUKE HACKER LONGMAN 2ND - PENNY THOMAS MAUI JJ

... so silver is correct, event is correct, not seeing black belt but that might be my lack of knowledge?

Yfixed it to brown, (confusion came as she was competing in brown/black at the time). Lewolka (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

She stayed in California for 5 years with the Gracie Humaita girls team, becoming black belt Jiu-Jitsu world champion twice, Pan American champion and world No-Gi champion. In 2007 after defeating judoka Celita Schutz in the semi-final and Lana Stefanac in the +67 kg final[12]

The only thing this source backs is that she came first in the +67 kg final of the ADCC Submission Fighting World Championship 2007, because the source is simply a results list - the rest of the info is not backed

YThe source lists all her matches and opponents, including semi-final and final, but I understand this could be seen as OR so I'm removing it and rephrasing the paragraph. Lewolka (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

During Grappler's Quest women's superfight, taking place at the UFC Expo in Las Vegas in May 2010, she submitted Shayna Baszler via rear naked choke.[16]

info verified ok, "submitted" is a technical term here?

Yyes it is, added wikilink for clarity. Lewolka (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

"Penny Thomas was born on 2 July 1979 in Durban, South Africa.[4]" source unreachable

Ychanged the source for bjjheroes which has the same info Lewolka (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

"At the end of 2013 Thomas moved back to Maui to focus on teaching. In 2019 she returned to competition, winning silver at the IBJJF World Masters Championship.[22]" same prob again, this is basically a results page only, so first sentence not verified, and for the second info is correct but prob best to specify it's "MASTER 2 / FEMALE / BLACK / MEDIUM-HEAVY"

Yremoved first sentence and rephrased based on source. Lewolka (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Images One image which is relevant and appropriately licensed

Broadness I had a slight scare that Penny Thomas isn't notable, but I think she is, she has received significant coverage in reliable sources. However, right now the article is rather top-heavy on results. More about her the person could be added from for example Jits and OGC. Also reading BJJheroes.com it says "Penny Thomas is also a gifted mathematician having won an advanced mathematics tournament. Her outstanding attributes do not end with mathematics and sports, she has also won different awards as an artist." - this is certainly worth mentioning

YAt the time very few women competed in the sport this is why she is regarded as one of the pioneers. Content has been added from source suggested and a new section added with her other achievements. Lewolka (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)