Talk:Paul Ritter

Eye

Does he have a glass eye? its driving me mental not knowing 122.58.124.6 (talk) 13:21, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I came here to ask the exact same question. I find not knowing similarly distracting. PRL42 (talk) 11:20, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

DOB

Several sources say he died at 54, which means the dob we have must be wrong.[1][2][3][4] Solipsism 101 (talk) 11:40, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. I had also noticed that. His agent ought to know how old he was. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:41, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

But he could have been born any time after 5 April 1966 and still have been 54. So without any source, it's numerically more probable that he was born in 1966. Even IMDb has no date of birth. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:34, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and removed [5] his unsourced date of birth and replaced it with templates of approximate years of birth based on his age on his death date.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 12:57, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Was Ritter (or Paul) a stage name? As there is no Paul Ritter birth listed at FreeBMD between March 1965 and December 1967. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:01, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I've known him since childhood. Paul Ritter is a stage name. I can confirm his name as ferreted out below was indeed Simon Adams — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a00:23c4:4784:1b00:547:7962:d7de:b867 (talk • contribs) 02:00, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I am not sure, though I can try to dig around (first time I have heard of such a tool).  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 13:19, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Mother's maiden name is always useful when searching UK birth registrations. But of course we have no family details at all, or even any geographic region, in this case. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I mean it does say he was born in Kent but that is completely unsourced unfourtnately :/.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 13:31, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Indeed. I guess we might look back through the history and see who added Kent (and the date of birth). Martinevans123 (talk) 13:42, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

DoB added first here by an IP on 6 April 2014. "Kent" first added here, by Ecosseboy (who was still editing three days ago), on 31 July 2018. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:58, 6 April 2021 (UTC). p.s. this edit looks intriguing.

Ah thanks for the info unforutnately no sources for either when first added (I know they can occasionally disappear over time with link rot, etc but not the case). The "Simon Adams" edit is certainly interesting, could be worth a search.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 14:11, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

So I found this - is this in anyway useful or reliable? And also this, from 2018, which says "The Quiz master is Simon Adams aka actor Paul Ritter of Friday Night Dinner and Vera", which suggests to me that he may have lived in Faversham at that time. FreeBMD lists a Simon Paul Adams born in Dartford but not registered until December 1966. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Also this on Twitter, a few hours ago, from Deano. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Also this from Darren Oxley from 2014 on Facebook, about a Shears Green Reunion Group in Gravesend. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:40, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Also this comment at londontheatregoer.com, which says: "That, and every time I see him, even as Robin Day, I get a mental flash of the first time I saw him, when he was still called Simon Adams, in a student production of "Tartuffe" where the seduction scene culminated with him stripping down to a basque, stockings and suspenders." But, of course, it's all WP:OR so it doesn't count.Martinevans123 (talk) 18:45, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Wow you have done quite the bit of digging! I know nothing about the reliablity of btw-zoeken.nl or playinginfaversham.com websites, do you know how reliable they are? As that seems like the only sites that could possibly be considered usable to link Simon Paul Adams to Paul Ritter if it were reliable enough the rest seem to be ORish posts from unverified users on social media (which seem convincing but that OR is not allowed on mainspace per policy). If Adams/Ritter was born in December 1968, Dartford that I believe would work out (Telegraph said 1968 year, Times said born in Kent, I believe that also mathematically works out in regards to death date age as well).  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 19:15, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

The website playinginfaversham.com doesn't look very reliable to me, although I have no good reason to disbelieve that content. As for btw-zoeken.nl, I have never seen that site before. But the content seems to be mirrored here. I guess it's not unusual for an actor to be VAT registered. This source confirms his home town as Faversham. I think that one's usable. And more Twitter support here. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:28, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I looked up that VAT number on the gov website (seems reliable I suppose) [6] and it resulted in "Simon Paul Adams" with an address in Faversham but it did not give me any alternate names the original gb.vat-search.eu gave me so I wonder how they got that data/info to begin with if it does not appear on the gov site. Yeah the Faversham seems to be solid, thanks for expanding the article. Just need to find something solid to link the two names... Looking in British newspaper archives online could be the key.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 20:37, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

As mentioned below, there is a new The Times obituary that came out and released a lot of new info and confirmed a lot of things including the Simon Paul Adams name, the December 1968 birthdate, etc among other details you mentioned which I have now added (good researching though).  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 00:22, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

This source gives a birth date. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:22, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, but I wonder where Andrew Gans of Playbill managed to find that information so quickly. And that the place of birth was Kent. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:26, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

And I've just noticed it gives his birth year as 1966 but his age as 54. Incidentally, there was a Paul David Rutter born in Chatham in 1966 (mother's maiden name Garwood) - hypothetically, he could have been one of those people who slightly changed their name to meet Equity rules. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:30, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Looks like you were right about Equity. But in an unexpected way. Looks like it may have been because of this one. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:02, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Ah yes, the "Incontinent Policeman". I remember him well... Such a high note on which to end one's career. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:22, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

It have a funny feeling it could be circular sourcing i.e. Andrew Gans of Playbill could have copied that info from wiki.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 14:38, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Could be. There is inconsistency in the sources at present - his age was obviously given in 54 in the original announcement, and it's clear from other sources that his birthday was March 5. Someone, somewhere, miscalculated, but we don't know if the age was wrong, or the year. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:45, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Almost all RSs state 54 for age including directly from his agent so I am more inclined to believe that. Do you have any source except PlayBill that state his birthday? My guess is PlayBill have commited circular sourcing by extracting info from Wiki, which is likely why more quality sources like The Guardian, Telegraph, BBC, etc do not state his birthday.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 14:53, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

It's just possible that Playbill had a ready-prepared and fully-researched obit on Ritter. He had some international exposure, even if much better known in UK. But when even IMDb doesn't have any bio, one does start to wonder. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:56, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

That seems a little unlikely considering his age of death imo (relatively unexcepted/out of the blue for lots since I do not believe his condition was publicised much either). Moreover, consider the way in which they present the infomation as a single sentence Paul Ritter was born March 5, 1966 in Kent, England. giving no further infomation about his early life or background, etc. [7]. Also consider the date of birth/death date and age that according to the templates seems to be mathematically impossible.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 15:07, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I've known him since childhood. Paul Ritter was a stage name. I can confirm his name as ferreted out above was indeed Simon Adams. He grew up in Northfleet. I don't know for sure whether he was born in Dartford or Gravesend but it will be one or the other. The two towns share NHS facilities to a considerable extent. Which one is most likely really depends what year the maternity wing opened at Gravesend hospital. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a00:23c4:4784:1b00:547:7962:d7de:b867 (talk • contribs) 02:00, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I see that, for some reason, the 140-year-old institution is hanging on to "March 5, 1966". Martinevans123 (talk) 07:52, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

And IMDb has followed suit. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:03, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended content

I'm amused that one of the people at Deaths in 2021 who says that the birth date in this article is unsourced is the same editor who added it in this edit in 2016... Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:10, 6 April 2021 (UTC) I agree. Seems like too much of a coincidence. I'd be interested to hear from InedibleHulk on this. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:12, 6 April 2021 (UTC) On dates, I know nothing. On coincidences, hear me out. Yesterday, at the very minute (18:36) I implicitly asked for one editor's apology, another explicitly apologized on my Talk! InedibleHulk (talk) 15:39, 6 April 2021 (UTC) Apparently coincidences are more likely if an institution is 140 years old. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:46, 6 April 2021 (UTC) Ever read Lipton leaves in an FA Cup? InedibleHulk (talk) 15:58, 6 April 2021 (UTC) "Rambling men at ITN will be lucky too!" Martinevans123 (talk) 16:05, 6 April 2021 (UTC) While hilarious, once again a waste of time. Get a room. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:15, 6 April 2021 (UTC) Yeah, maybe he wasn't called Simon Adams at all. Maybe it's all a coincidence. But thanks for your much valued input. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:50, 6 April 2021 (UTC) For a guy allegedly distracted by work hours ago, you seem to have enough time left to share with us silly bastards; consider yourself lucky! InedibleHulk (talk) 19:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC) @Ghmyrtle Just to clear something up: back in 2016, all I did was add the DOB that was listed in the infobox to the opening line, as is standard. It wasn't me that originally added the 5 March 1966 DOB to the infobox. Ollie231213 (talk) 12:14, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I’m confused as to where the 20th of December has come from? I’ve been a fan of Paul for a while and since his passing it has always said the 5th of March, also making him aged 55 when he died. Please could someone explain the change in birthdays? Thanks Maryam01830 (talk) 11:01, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

The source (as given clearly in the article) is Ritter's obituary in The Times, which is regarded as a reliable source. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:09, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Yep. 5th March turns out to be an incorrect date that was introduced to the Internet at some point (possibly through IMDB and/or Wikipedia) and then copied by other sites. Since his agent and his family both announced he was 54 when he died, this date cannot be correct. A number of reliable sources (notably the Times, Telegraph and Guardian) have printed a data of 20 December, which does agree with his age upon death. Black Kite (talk) 11:10, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

As I mentioned above, the DoB of 5 March was added first here by an IP on 6 April 2014. Perhaps that was an April Fool's joke 5 days late? When we looked for a source for DoB on Monday, IMDb had nothing. Then there's also the entry for December 1966 in FreeBMD. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:13, 10 April 2021 (UTC) p.s. Playbill is still telling us that he was born on 5 March

Thanks for the feedback Maryam01830 (talk) 11:13, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

DoD

The agent's statement says only that he died "last night". So we cannot say if it was 5 or 6 April. Edit warring over this, in the absence of any better source, is quite futile. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:11, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Since his agent said today (Tuesday) that that Paul Ritter passed away last night., that means he must of died on 5 April surely [8] ?  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 13:33, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

The phrase "last night" may mean before midnight. It may mean during the hours of darkness. It is quite possible that no death certificate has even yet been issued. It's possible that nobody knows exactly when he died. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:37, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

AP says Agency Markham, Froggatt & Irwin said Ritter died Monday night [9] since they said Monday that would have to mean 5 April? I think it is unlikely they mean during the hours of darkness, but who knows. Just stick with one date for now.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 13:42, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Um, the word "Monday" doesn't seem to appear in the agency statement reported by The Guardian here: "It is with great sadness we can confirm that Paul Ritter passed away last night,” said his agent. “He died peacefully at home with his wife Polly and sons Frank and Noah by his side. He was 54 and had been suffering from a brain tumour." But Toby Moses of The Guardian says "The actor Paul Ritter has died of a brain tumour at the age of 54, his agent has told the Guardian. Ritter who starred as the family patriarch Martin in Channel 4’s Friday Night Dinner alongside Tamsin Greig, Simon Bird and Tom Rosenthal died on Monday." So I guess we have to go with that. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:48, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Oh great thanks for the info, that problem seems solved then.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 14:13, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Image

How soon could a fair use image be used? Although I realise the article doesn't actually "need" one. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I did add one [10] but was subsequently been removed by User:The Rambling Man for being "far too quick for a fair use image". I did not realise there was a waiting period for NFCC I thought one could be added after they died if no free one could be found (That file is going to be deleted for another reason did not realise it was from Getty Images which is not allowed, as explained on my talk page). Is there a guidance/policy in regards to wait times for these images?  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 14:43, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

The answer to that is "certainly not immediately". It is sometimes the case that a free image will surface shortly after a celebrity's death, so it is worth waiting to see if that happens. Black Kite (talk) 18:48, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

uploade image 112.79.59.168 (talk) 04:38, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry, there is no way to get that non-Getty pic. --Frontman830 (talk) 12:46, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

A senior editor has suggested that we typically "expect to wait between three to six months" to conduct a search for a free image. I had thought that use of a copyright-protected image, for "fair use" reasons, somehow circumvented this. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:01, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Times obituary - missing gaps

From Google results, I can see that this obituary in the times hot this half hour says that he is indeed "Simon Paul Adams" who was born in 1966 in Gravesend. Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber so I can't see any more Unknown Temptation (talk) 23:21, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

 Partly done I have filled in most of the new info from The Times, I have also added an archive so you should also be able to see it as well.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 00:28, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Deutsches Schauspielhaus

"After graduating, he went to the German National Theatre in Hamburg, Germany.[1]"

The name of the theater in Hamburg is "Deutsches Schauspielhaus". Nothing "national" about it. The link is leading to Weimar anyway.

Agreed. Have corrected. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:28, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Except The Times source says German National Theatre, so we have to stick with that until we can clarify. Maybe a mistranslation, maybe some organisational change? But that link looks incorrect, so have unlinked. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:37, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Looking at de:Paul Ritter (Schauspieler) the correct place seems to be Deutsches Schauspielhaus in Hamburg. So I have added a piped link. Translation still sees wrong though. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:44, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

His obituary in Guardian has some detail on this subject. It says he spent a year of his degree (it says French and German, article currently says Modern Languages) in Hamburg and at that time "walked on" at Deutsches Schauspielhaus. I assume that's a reference to having walk-on parts in a/some production(s)? Other details in that article - some more details on his parents, the reason he chose Ritter (German actor he admired), the amount of time he spent in German post-graduation (a year), and rather a lot on his theatre career, which feels quite lightly covered by the article at this stage. HornetMike (talk) 12:18, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

No objection to more details being added from that source. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:37, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes this is odd, The Times says "German National Theatre" in Hamburg which would be German National Theatre / Deutsches Nationaltheater und Staatskapelle Weimar but that theatre is in Weimar. The Guardian says Deutsches Schauspielhaus in Hamburg. The Telegraph [11] says "German National Theatre, in Hamburg". All sources point to Hamburg so probably Deutsches Schauspielhaus but not certain.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 21:21, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Related requested move for the name "Paul Ritter"

A related requested move on the name "Paul Ritter" can be found here, thanks.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 01:42, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for letting us know. I guess page views will have been largely skewed by the recent death. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:45, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, one editor is proposing (not counting the RD views) that this page is in fact the primary topic, which I might well agree with, but I'll wait for more editors views first though.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 18:15, 9 April 2021 (UTC)