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Talk:Pat O'Keeffe/Archive 1

< Talk:Pat O'Keeffe
Latest comment: 6 years ago by Okeeffemarc in topic Request edit (removed by requester) on 9 March 2018
Archive 1

Request edit on 5 January 2018

Latest comment: 6 years ago20 comments5 people in discussion

change O'Keefe to o'keeffe in all instances. In this link you'll see a signed picture by Pat O'Keeffe, he signs his own name with 2 f's. http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-148529894/view kind regards Okeeffemarc (talk) 14:38, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Even though the photo appears to show two f's in the name, the National Library of Australia spells his name with only one. I'm reluctant to change the article based on one picture when the sources say otherwise. —C.Fred (talk) 16:45, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
Good afternoon, With respect, this is signed by the person him self, surely you're not saying he incorrectly spelt his own name? Its an annoying infliction that no one can spell our name right.
here's a scarf that was presented from the British Boxing Authority. Again with the correct spelling.[1]

References

  1. ^ https://www.flickr.com/photos/70124836@N08/6363903033/in/photolist-aGmETa-aGmFav-aGmFB6-aGmJFK-aGmEE6-aGmFU6-aGmGqB-aGmHHx-aGmJHX-aGmGXv
regards, Okeeffemarc (talk) 18:10, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
There is a spelling discrepancy. The question becomes, how best to handle it? Was the spelling changed at some point? Was the double-f the earlier spelling? Or, why do the library and other sources use the one-f spelling? —C.Fred (talk) 18:19, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
The name was 2 F’s Long before his life and remains so today. The discrepancy is down to incorrect spelling. I’d argue that his name In his own writing is pretty potent evidence, along with official memorabilia presented to him such as the scarf. What threshold of evidence do you need? I know I’m correct and believe I have sufficient proof, but understand you are just protecting the integrity of your site. I believe a member of my family has a certified family tree, would a photo of this help?
Also, I am going to find the family of the author of his biography, and gain copyright permission to the pictures. I am talking to BoxRec.com concerning the inaccuracies in his fighting record. Once resolved, would citing their record be enough to change it on here?
Regards Okeeffemarc (talk) 21:45, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
I've asked at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Boxing about this. Perhaps someone from that WikiProject can help find something which shows the "correct" spelling of the name. As for the photos in the book, they might be old enough to be considered in the public domain; otherwise, permission of the original copyright holder will be needed to release them under a free license. Since books often use photos taken by someone other than the author(s), it should not be automatically assumed that the person(s) who took the photos and the author of the book are one and the same. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:46, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
Marchjuly Thank you, doing my research, the wrong spelling is frustratingly wide spread on google [sigh] if i need to get un refute-able proof i will, it'll just take a few days. I have found more excellent pictures from the Imperial War Museum [1] who say their pictures are free to use as long as it's not for commercial gain, i have emailed them about his name too. plus i have found a video from British Pathe on Youtube of him training: youtu.be/YRRyeZL64h4 could i add this video? The youngest picture in that book is 1953, the rest are pre-1918. if i ditch all of the anecdotal text, can my edit stand? Notwithstanding the question of his name of course.

References

  1. ^ http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205286849
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Okeeffemarc (talk • contribs) 23:10, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
Marchjuly ( hello again, just found a tonne of old newspaper articles from the British National Archive with his name spelt correctly :) this has to be enough proof for a name change now right?? [1] also plenty of reliable sources to add content to his profile?

References

  1. ^ https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results?basicsearch=pat%20o%27keeffe&retrievecountrycounts=false
regards, Okeeffemarc (talk) 23:32, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
Changing the spelling of a word in the article body is quite simple to do; changing the title of an article, however, is more complicated and requires a page move. Article titles are determined according to WP:COMMONNAME and are intended to reflect what independent reliable sources are saying. So, what is going to need to be established is that the majority of independent reliable sources use "Keeffe". Establishing a consensus for a page move may take some time, so please be patient and give others a chance to comment. Once the name issue has been resolved, then the other changes you're proposing can be discused.
Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons only accept freely licensed content (text or images) which allows re-use for commercial purposes; so, those IWM photos cannot be uploaded under a free license without the original copyright holder(s) agreeing to allow commercial use. Moreover, not every image you may find on a museum's, etc. website automatically means that the museum, etc. is the original copyright holder. Some copyrighted content can be uploaded locally to Wikiepdia as non-free content, but Wikipedia's non-free content use policy is quite restrictive and can be hard to satisfy in some cases. So, I suggest that you wait until the name issue has been resolved before uploading anymore image files. If you upload images that are improperly licensed or otherwise deemed to be a violation of relevant policies and guidelines, then you're just creating a mess that others are going to have to cleanup and you might be labled as a chronic copyright violator if you do it too many times.
I posted something on your user talk about how to properly ping other editors and sign your talk page posts. Please take the time to read it. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:29, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

I have updated this profile with the correct fight records from Boxrec.com and have added to the short summary of his career. On reading this talk page i can tell you his name on Boxrec.com is with 2 F's, and along with the evidence provided on this page such as his own signature and literally hundreds of regional and national newspaper articles from that time spelling it with 2 F's also, i'd say thats a compelling case for changing the page name...or maybe say he was known as both?? Benparsons2 (talk) 16:32, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

I have access to the British Newspaper Archive. Searches of sources from 1900-1950 return results for this subject with both spellings, but there are more that use O'Keefe. That doesn't necessarily mean they are correct, of course. He served in the army during WW1, so there may be some military sources that could be used. --Michig (talk) 20:22, 7 January 2018 (UTC) I've found and added his date and place of death - this may also help to find an official death record with the correct name recorded. --Michig (talk) 20:32, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Further update: I've searched FreeBMD for a death record from Middlesex, his place of death. The site has no Patrick O'Keefe death records from 1960, but has a Patrick O'Keeffe death registered in Harrow, Middlesex during the period July-September 1960 (only the index is visible), and he was aged 77, which I have confirmed was the age at death of this Pat O'Keeffe, so I think this strongly suggests that O'Keeffe is the correct spelling. --Michig (talk) 20:40, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

hello Michig (talk) This is an excellent find, It really is a curse that my name is spelt wrong so frequently, i guess past generations just gave up correcting it! So i have a found a signed picture with the correct spelling as written by him, and now an official death record confirms the spelling...plus BoxRec.com have it correct now. Do you know how i go about changing it on here? kind regards --Okeeffemarc (talk) 22:17, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
Other editors are working on this and it appears to be moving towards a resolution. Just be a little more patient and don't try and make the change yourself. FWIW, both C.Fred and Michig are administrators; they are here to help sort this out. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:36, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

I think we have enough to move the article to Pat O'Keeffe and mention the different spelling used by some sources in the lede. Does anyone object? --Michig (talk) 09:33, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

  • No objection from me of course. I have added lots more about Pat in my sandbox and would like to submit it for review, I believe it's matter of factly and have cited every claim from reliable sources. I don't want to do that unless the name is changed. I won't try and do it due to aforementioned COI. If anyone wants to look at my sandbox and add to/change it, please feel free, you won't hurt my feelings! :) Okeeffemarc (talk) 20:53, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
I am not an admin and I don't have tons of experience with the technicalities of page moves. If Michig feels there's enough sourcing for this, then I have no objection. There will always be this discussion which can be cited for reference if anyone disputes this at a later date. It may even be possible to add something about the different spelling to the article content if it really had a significant impact on O'Keeffe's career or like.
As for User:Okeeffemarc/sandbox, I don't suggest requesting that be added all at once because it would be such a major revision of the current article; better to ask for it in stages. You might also want to ask for some members of WT:BOXING to take a look at it while it's in you sandbox; they ight be able to help tighten up anything which needs tightening up. Quick observations: (1) Too many external links. Only the one for O'Keeffe's boxing record seems relevant per WP:ELNO; so the others should go. (2) You've embedded external links into the article. It's unfortunate perhaps that many of the fighters from that era don't have stand-alone articles written about them. If you feel there's enough to write an article about them yourself or for someone else to do so then follow WP:REDYES; don't embed external links to pages about fighters like this. (3) Try to figure which pictures best complement the article content and keep those. Some of the photos seem unnecessary or redundant to me. You should also try to re-format the ones you want to keep so that they better fit into the article as a whole. Articles are not picture albums of photos of the subject or photos related to the subject, and ideally they should directly support article content. You also have to remember MOS:ACCESS and that all kinds of people read Wikipedia from all kinds of devices, so avoid WP:SANDWICH, etc. Take a look at some WP:FAs about fighters/athletes for some examples and WP:IUP#Adding images to articles for general suggestions. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:53, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and moved it. --Michig (talk) 07:15, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the observations and tips Marchjuly I am looking at starting articles for all these boxers and would like to expand on existing ones already on Wikipedia, it's amazing how much you can find in old newspapers. I will take time to look at the WP links you have given and try and make what i have done water tight. Thanks for moving the page michig Okeeffemarc (talk) 18:45, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
Generally, you're going to need to show these other boxers meet WP:BIO or WP:NBOXING for a stand-alone article (even a WP:STUB) to have staying power. You should ask at WT:BOXING about this because those editors would probably be able to give you more specific advice. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:14, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Request edit on 26 January 2018

Latest comment: 6 years ago8 comments4 people in discussion

Please replace current version of Pat O'Keeffe with this one. Old draft deleted by --Okeeffemarc (talk) 17:09, 1 March 2018 (UTC) This Keeps the same information that already exists in the current article, and then expands from a STUB to include information on his career, military service and retirement. I believe this is a well sourced, neutral article that follows WP:MOS. I am of course happy to be corrected, so i learn for my next edit. Thank you for you in advance for your time and consideration Okeeffemarc (talk) 17:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

No problem replacing the existing article, but I think the full reproduction of newspaper articles needs to go for copyright reasons - better to summarise what they say in the text of the article if relevant. There are also some changes needed per WP:MOSBIO, e.g. refer to him as 'O'Keeffe' rather than 'Pat' after the first instance. --Michig (talk) 18:38, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
@Okeeffemarc: One quick thing about adding lots of content such as this. When you basically copy-and-paste a fully formatted article onto a talk page, the Wiki software will format it as such. This means all of the images, section heading, templates, etc. will be enabled/active just as if they were on the article page. In some instances, this could be a problem because certain images/templates are only meant for use in articles, not article talk pages. It also can mess with the talk page's formatting since all of the software sees == Section name== and formats that particular section as if it was really a new section on the talk page. If you have a hard time understanding what this means, compare this version of the talk page (the one prior to the tweaking I did) with the current version and you'll notice that the sections of the proposed addition were being treated as new subsections of the talk page, which they technically were not. Another tip is that you could've simply add a link to your sandbox as your request instead of copy-and-pasting everything here; that would've preserved proper attribution just in case this might not have been covered by WP:NOATT. For future reference though, whenever you copy-and-paste anything from one Wikipedia page to another, it's a good idea to check WP:CWW to make sure their are no attribution issues.
As for the proposed version, it looks much better than the one I saw at User:Okeeffemarc/sandbox a few days ago. Some observations are as follows:
  • The box quotes (quote frame) seem a bit too many and too undue for me per MOS:QUOTE and per Michig, so maybe better to summarize them or only quote the essential words, and then support by a inline citation.
  • The headings "Prime" and "Tough time aboard" probably should be tweaked to clarify/make them more neutral sounding, Maybe divide up the career by time period using actual years (e.g., "Early career:1910–1920") or by status (e.g., "Amateur career" and "Professional career", "Domestic career" and "International career"). Maybe Muhammad Ali can be seen as one example of how to do this, but there should be more then one or two simple sentences per section. Also, it should be "World War I" since it is a proper noun.
  • Articles don't use ordinals for dates per WP:BADDATE; you can use the UK date format (DMY) if you want per MOS:DATETIES, but don't use ordinals like in "January 27th, 2018", or "27th January 2018", etc.
  • As Michig also points out, take a look at WP:SURNAME because use of the first name should be limited to only when it's absolutely essential for the reader's understand; for example, when distinguishing between two people who share the same family name, etc.
  • The unsourced content of the retirement section probably should go except for the stuff about his death. (That should be sourced if possible). I'm sure the other stuff about the Ark Royal and losing trophies, etc. is true and it does add some color, but it will be always be a target for removal by another editor as trivial with proper sourcing.
Most of the things I mentioned above would be cleaned up if this content was already in the article. None of it, other than unsourced content and the possible copyright issues, are major issues that might lead to removal of any content. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:00, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
    • @Michig: Thank you for once again taking a look and your useful and informative feedback.
  • I have got rid of the quotes and summarised whilst quoting a sentence or two. I have left the the last quote, but shortened it to an extract of exactly what im pertaining to. with "..." before and after to show this is an extract.
  • Every "Pat" has been replaced with O'Keeffe or he/him/his.

@Marchjuly: Thanks very much for once again having a look and taking some considerable time and effort to detail your constructive feedback in terms a noob like me can understand;

  • Headings have been changed. The Ali article was definitely useful for comparative ideas.
  • I have changed all dates to conform with MOS:DATETIES
  • Agree, if i can't cite it, it shouldn't be there. I have found other material to fill the gap, that is sourced.

Think this article's looking pretty good now. Thanks again to both of you for your observations and tips. Okeeffemarc (talk) 03:10, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Oh and I have left the proposed article in my sandbox as per Marchjuly’s advise. Okeeffemarc (talk) 22:53, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

    • Have been reading up on COI edit requests, the requests have to be on the talk page it seems. Have made a fair few changes and additions in accordance with more newspaper trawls and BoxRec updates. would you be happy to publish this @Michig:? Okeeffemarc (talk) 20:22, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Old draft deleted by --Okeeffemarc (talk) 17:09, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Reply 4-FEB-2018

  1. I'm concerned about the references from BoxRec, which state on their website Data may be incomplete/inaccurate. These citations represent 19% of your entire references, a significant amount. Thus, other more reliable sources for this information needs to be located. These will most likely be found in print sources at your local library, or through the library's ILL system.
  2. There are still references to Wikipedia present in the article. These need to be removed. If the information was taken from these Wikipedia articles, either delete the information or paraphrase it in your own words.
  3. Your draft version should include the addition of a Primary Sources template, which the article will most definately have if published in the current configuration.
  4. WP:INTEGRITY issues are pervasive in the article. Instances such as the second paragraph of the Early Career section, which has a citation bundle placed at the end of the text consisting of 5 citations, needs to be fixed. Citations must follow the information they cite, so ensuring that the citations do not stray far from the information they reference would be a helpful endeavour.
  5. The article is heavy with citations just about until you reach its lower half, whereupon citations quickly become few and far between, leaving gaps where unreferenced claims reside. Unreferenced material may be challenged and removed, so the more gaps that can be filled with references, the better. Your access to subscription-based archives should prove useful in this regard.

Please reopen a new edit request when you're ready to proceed.   Spintendo ᔦᔭ 15:52, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Request edit on 12 February 2018

Latest comment: 6 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

Please replace the existing Pat O'Keeffe with this one.

Old draft deleted by--Okeeffemarc (talk) 17:09, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

@Spintendo: Thank you for taking a look at my draft and your constructive and useful feedback. Sorry for taking so long to reply, have been away at work.

1 I take your point that BoxRec has a disclaimer, but it is also the recognised authority on boxing records, used by almost every single boxing article on Wikipedia. I have replaced all but 2 of the BoxRec references in the article, finding better sources for the rest.

2 Now no more links to wikipedia article.

3 I have added the Primary Sources template, but not 100% sure about it. Even though the vast majority of the sources i use are newspapers of the day, I am only using primary sources to reference the facts about his bouts, a lot of these articles, especially the WW1 era, also have opinion interjected, making them secondary sources? Im obviously no expert, so i may be wrong.

4 I have resolved citation bundle issues. I can very confidently say that every citation is directly relevant to what they reference.

5 The reason the article is heavy with citations in the top half is because i am citing every bout i mention, later in the article i am citing paragraphs that summarise the news article cited, hence the larger spaces. Every claim is cited.

Okeeffemarc (talk) 20:33, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

    • The collapse box doesn't seem to be working, i cannot understand why, as when in preview it looks fine. therefore i'm taking the collapse out Okeeffemarc (talk) 20:57, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
  Not done Really, you need to provide specific changes rather than a replacement in whole cloth. It's not practical to compare to see the changes from this version to the existing. —C.Fred (talk) 21:12, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

@C.Fred:

Ok, but it's changing the profile picture, his height, and fight record, adding slightly more information to the introduction paragraph, then everything is new. how would you want this presented? Okeeffemarc (talk) 21:28, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Bite size Request edit on 12 February 2018

Latest comment: 6 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

1. please replace this version:
2. with this:
The new version has more detail, with corresponding sources. (References have been "no wiki'ed" to stop them auto populating at the bottom of the page)
3. Then please add the following:proffesional boxing; Early career 1902-1910
4.International career:1907-1910
5. Late career:1911-1918
6. Military service during World War I
7. Retirement
8. Proffesional boxing record/see also/refs/external links
9. The rest of the article is new and thoroughly sourced, with the help of numerous kind, friendly and knowledgeable editors who have taken the time to provide some very useful feedback that i have acted upon. Kind regards, Okeeffemarc (talk) 22:18, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
10. Have updated to ensure this draft is also MOS:BOXING compliant. Okeeffemarc (talk) 22:21, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
11. I have re-presented this request into chapters and supplied numerous secondary sources, so have discarded the Primary Sources template

I hope this is now good enough to publish. Kind regards, Okeeffemarc (talk) 22:58, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Reply

  1. Which editors have helped you, and why haven't they implemented these changes?
  2. The stats are unreferenced.
  3. The article as it stands now reads too much like a story, with too much detail (e.g., "One month later, O'Keeffe defended the title against Charlie Allum and knocked him out in the sixth round. He had already met Charlie Allum twice before the 1906[5] championship fight, in 1904[6] and 1905.[7] They met twice more in 1907.[8] By a narrow points margin [sic] after a hard fought 15 rounds one month later." Also in that example you have almost every single fight listed with Charlie Allum. This is not a summary of information, rather, it is a detailed compendium of every single fight. That is not the purpose of Wikipedia, per WP:NOTDIARY and WP:NOTSTATSBOOK. I would recommend visiting WP:BETTER for ideas on how to make the writing here better.
  4. It would be best if you deleted older draft versions of the article from this page, or else archived them, as they are getting too unwieldy to remain.
Regards, Spintendo      08:29, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

1. I mean the editors on this talk page who have responded to my requests, have always been constructive, polite and patient. I guess they haven't been implemented because each time something else is noticed that needs rectifying. Not complaining, understand and appreciate that this helps improve the draft.

2. The stats are referenced in the external links section. MOS:BOXING/RECORD (External reference paragraph) states to either do this or cite directly. if i'm wrong on this, happy to change it.

3. I will work on re-wording the article using the WP's you have mentioned, then re-submit.

4. I've deleted the old drafts, but have left the comments.

thanks again for your help   Okeeffemarc (talk) 17:09, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Request edit on 2 March 2018: Lead and first section only.

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
Thank you Spintendo and MatthewVanitas for your helpful replies.

I will now put forward edit requests section by section, instead of the whole article i hope to publish. This is the only method of peer review i can use, as WP:PR requests only work on main-space talk pages. If you would like to look at the whole draft article in it's current form, it is here, feel free to edit mistakes and poor wording if you like.

Please replace the existing lead section:

Thank you, but please allow for additional opinions on this matter to be brought to the table, for a consensus to form on whether this is a proper COI edit request. I raised that question only yesterday, and thus far we've received input from one person. Until more input is received and a decision is made, please do not reopen the template. Regards, Spintendo      15:26, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


Extended content

Pat O'Keeffe
 
Pat O'Keefe (r.) with Andrew Jeptha
Born(1883-03-17)17 March 1883
Bromley-by-Bow, England
Died16 August 1960(1960-08-16) (aged 77)
Middlesex, England
Nationality (legal)British
Statistics
Weight(s)Welterweight, Middleweight
Height5 ft 10 in (178 cm)
StanceOrthodox
Boxing record
Total fights106
Wins74
Wins by KO30
Losses24
Draws6
No contests1

Pat O'Keeffe (17 March 1883 – 16 August 1960, spelled by many sources as Pat O'Keefe), was an English boxer who became British champion at both welter and middleweight. His professional career spanned between 1902 and 1918, and in 1914 he made an unsuccessful bid at the European Heavyweight belt, losing to Georges Carpentier. Between 1907 and 1910 he left Britain and continued his boxing career firstly in the United States and then Australia. He finished his career in 1918, defeating Bandsman Blake to win his Lonsdale belt out right.

O'Keeffe died on 16 August 1960 at the Mount Vernon Hospital in Middlesex, aged 77.<ref>{{cite news |title=Pat O'Keefe Dead |work=Coventry Evening Telegraph |date=17 August 1960 |accessdate=7 January 2018 |url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000769/19600817/127/0013| via = [[British Newspaper Archive]]|subscription=yes}}</ref>

 
O'Keeffe during the First World War

Request edit on 1 March 2018

Latest comment: 6 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

1. Please replace this version of Pat O'Keeffe
2. With this version: adds more relevant detail about key points in his life and career.
Then please add the following:
3. Professional boxing
Early career:1902-1907
4. International career:1907-1910
5. Late career:1911-1918
6. Military service during World War I
7. Retirement
8. Professional boxing record
9. See also/refs/links
9. Have expanded this article to include important and relevant parts of his career and life and have addressed pick ups from various editors. Kind regards, Okeeffemarc (talk) 21:18, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Reply

Point #3 was addressed with the example I gave, but the article contains many more. Technically, this is still in development. You're not asking for one or two edits, you're asking for the entire article to be replaced wholesale. I don't believe that is the purpose of COI edit requests. Normally I would recommend WP:PR, but as this is a draft version, I believe it ought to go through WP:AFC. This is territory best covered by editors at WP:AFC, who are thoroughly versed in its requirements and constantly deal with article-sized requests. Any editor who knows differently, or if I'm completely wrong about this, please speak up. Otherwise the article sits here as an edit request no one is willing to take. I don't think that's fair you as the editor who is trying to get these changes made. I'm just trying to steer you in the most advantageous direction. Spintendo      22:40, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Hello Spintendo, checking in from AFC here: to the best of my knowledge, it's a firm rule that AFC is not for drafts intended to replace/supplement existing articles. The biggest single issue on AFC is Notability, and given that a stable existing article has presumably passed the Notability test, that obviates like 75% of the need for AFC. So my suggestion (from a quick scan of this Talk page) is that Okeeffemarc go with the lowest-hanging fruit and pick one section at a time that has the strongest sourcing, best laid-out, and adds the most to the article, get consensus for adding that, and then continue the process.
I realize integrating two disparate versions, one very long, is a complex issue, but AFC isn't the venue for it. MatthewVanitas (talk) 00:22, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
Thank you very much for this information. I don't believe that this request is equivalent to a supplement. Supplementary information is small pieces here and there which augment already established information. When this article was created, it contained little more than a birthdate. That's it. So you see, this article never went through the AFC process to begin with. The information here is all new information raising the same questions of notability which the article never answered a first time.Spintendo      15:14, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
Ive placed a discussion request in the Village pump, I'm copying it here so others can read it.

Background information:

  • In 2011 the Pat O'Keefe article was created. The article concerns the life and times of a boxer who lived during the roaring twenties. The article was created by an editor who placed very general information upon it, such as the birthdate, name, etc. Very general claim statements. Over the years, the article never grew beyond a few sentences at most.
  • Fast forward to today, where a relative of the boxer (who has an announced and recognized COI) has written a brand new article (which I'll call the draft version). They would like this draft version to supercede the current article (which I'll call the LS, or long standing version). They have been using the COI edit request system in the attempt to place the information from the draft version into the LS version. I have two questions here:
  1. The LS version, since the day it was activated, has never undergone any kind of formal review process, such as WP:AFC. Its texts have never been examined in detail, nor has any other details, large and small, been vetted through the lense of the AFC process. With this new draft version, isn't now the best time to place this draft in front of that process, in order that it might receive all those benefits, carried out by editors experienced in the AFC process?
  2. Is submitting the draft version for COI edit requests an appropriate use of the COI system? I had thought that edit requests were to be actionable directives placed before the community in order to quicky review and approve information into already well established and functioning articles where a COI presence was indicated. It is rare for a COI edit request to involve the entire article. Is the proposal to re-write the article within the intended scope of the COI edit request system?

Thank you for your attention, and I look forward to reading your responses. Spintendo      19:20, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


External links

Latest comment: 6 years ago10 comments3 people in discussion

With this version of the lead. The INFOBOX is updated and more accurate. The picture is O'Keeffe on his own, in the attire of a boxer, which is more appropriate for this article. The existing picture is already in use on the Andrew Jeptha Article. More citations and and expansion of the lead to include more notable points in his career and life have been added, which will be covered.

Extended content

Pat O'Keeffe
 
Born(1883-03-17)17 March 1883
Bromley-by-Bow, England
Died16 August 1960(1960-08-16) (aged 77)
Harrow,Middlesex, England
Nationality (legal)British
Statistics
Weight(s)Welterweight, Middleweight, heavyweight.
Height5 ft 9+1⁄2 in (1.77 m)
StanceOrthodox
Boxing record
Total fights106
Wins74
Wins by KO30
Losses24
Draws6
No contests1

Pat O'Keeffe (17 March 1883 – 16 August 1960, spelled by many sources as Pat O'Keefe), is a former professional English boxer who became British champion at both welter and middleweight. His professional career spanned between 1902 and 1918, and in 1914 he made an unsuccessful bid at the European Heavyweight belt, losing to Georges Carpentier.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000276/19140120/120/0003|title=NEWBURY MEETING|last=|first=|date=20 January 1914|work=Sheffield Evening Telegraph|access-date=8 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> Between 1907 and 1910 he left Britain and continued his boxing career firstly in the United States, and then Australia. On the outbreak of World War One he joined the British Army to work as a Physical Training Instructor (PTI) and Recruiting Sergeant for the 1st Surrey Rifles.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/BL/0000560/19141026/090/0010?browse=False|title=rifleman Pat O'Keeffe|last=|first=|date=26 October 1914|work=Daily Mirror|access-date=12 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> He won the Lonsdale Belt outright when he defeated Bandsman Blake at the National Sporting Club (N.S.C) on 28 January 1918, becoming British Middleweight Champion and winning the Lonsdale belt outright.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19180129/015/0001|title=VETERAN'S LONSDALE BELT|last=|first=|date=29 January 1918|work=The Sportsman|access-date=8 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref>.

O'Keeffe died on 16 August 1960 at the Mount Vernon Hospital in Middlesex, aged 77.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000769/19600817/127/0013|title=Pat O'Keefe dead|last=|first=|date=17 August 1960|work=Coventry Evening Telegraph|access-date=7 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref>

Then please add this section. It details the notable bouts and mile stones O'Keeffe reached in the first part of his career, thoroughly sourced using the British Newspaper Archive. As has previously been mentioned on this page, the vast majority of these articles are primary sources as they are factual reports from the day. So i have backed these up where possible referencing books these events are mentioned in also.

Extended content

== Professional boxing ==

=== Early career:1902-1907 === One of the earliest of his recorded fights was against [[Jack Palmer (boxer)|Jack Palmer]].<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19021103/032/0002|title=TRAMPING TO BRIGHTON|last=|first=|date=3 November 1902|work=Sporting Life|access-date=12 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe defeated Palmer on two occasions over six rounds during 1902.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19021113/073/0004|title=THE SPORTSMAN THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 13,1902|last=|first=|date=13 November 1902|work=The Sportsman|access-date=12 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> In 1903, at the age of twenty, he beat [[Jack Kingsland]] in a match fought at [[Olympia, London|Olympia]] to win the title of Welterweight Champion of England.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://boxrec.com/en/event/246553/414684|title=Pat O'Keeffe vs Jack Kingsland|last=|first=|date=|website=BoxRec|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|access-date=}}</ref> In 1906, having fought many of the top contenders for the British Middleweight Title, O'Keeffe was elected to contest the championship. O’Keeffe won the title beating [[Mike Crawley (boxer)|Mike Crawley]] in a fight that lasted fifteen rounds.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19060320/083/0004|title=15 round contest|last=|first=|date=20 March 1906|work=Sporting Life|access-date=11 February 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> One month later, O'Keeffe defended the title against [[Charlie Allum (boxer)|Charlie Allum]] and knocked him out in the sixth round.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19060424/073/0004|title=O'Keeffe defeats Allum|last=|first=|date=24 April 1906|work=The Sportsman|access-date=10 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe lost his belt the very next bout to [[Thomas Thomas (boxer)|Tom Thomas]] at the N.S.C. By a narrow points margin.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19060529/045/0002|title=closing night of the season|last=|first=|date=29 May 1906|work=Sporting Life|access-date=12 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> a year later in Paris, O'Keeffe defeated Allum again by knock out and won two hundred pounds. This bout was billed the French Middleweight Championship.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19070302/104/0007|title=Boxing Items|last=|first=|date=2 March 1907|work=Sporting Life|access-date=10 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe never defended the claim.


I'd like to add this information at the bottom of the article now too, if possible? so theres no confusion when anyone reads the article after 1 or 2 successful edit requests. As the current article already has a {{reflist}} template, the extra references i am adding will automatically populate. So please add the following just above:

see also section

and these general references, links and portal tags below.

Extended content

== General references ==

  • Lee, Tony (2009). All in My Corner: A tribute to some forgotten Welsh boxing heroes. Ammanford: TL Associates. ISBN 978-0-9564456-0-5. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  • Ingram, Brian (2012). Australian Boxing World Champions. Xlibris Corporation. ISBN 1477107290.
  • Corri, Eugene (2013). Refereeing 1000 Fights - Reminiscences of Boxing. Read Books Ltd. ISBN 1447486560.
  • Waltzer, Jim (2011). The Battle of the Century: Dempsey, Carpentier, and the Birth of Modern Promotion. ABC-CLIO. ISBN 0313382441.
  • Dartnell, Fred (1924). "Seconds Out!": Chats about Boxers, Their Trainers and Patrons. T. W. Laurie, Limited.
  • Diegle, C.R. (1924). Ring Battles of Centuries. University of Minnesota: Tom Andrews Record Book Company.
  • Harding, John (1994). Lonsdale's Belt: The Story of Boxing's Greatest Prize. Robson. ISBN 0860518469.
  • Guards, Irish (2000). Irish Guards: The First Hundred Years 1900-2000. the University of Michigan: Spellmount. ISBN 1862270694.
  • Parker, percy Livingstone (1925). Daily Mail Year Book. the University of Michigan: Associated Newspapers Groups, Limited.
  • Country Life, Volume 46. Princeton University. 1919.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link)
  • Strieble, Dan (2008). Fight Pictures: A History of Boxing and Early Cinema. University of California Press. ISBN 052094058X.
  • Horrall, Andrew (2001). Popular Culture in London C.1890-1918: The Transformation of Entertainment. Manchester University Press. ISBN 0719057833.
  • Roberts, James B (2006). The Boxing Register: International Boxing Hall of Fame Official Record Book. McBooks Press. ISBN 1590131215.
  • Harding, John (2016). Lonsdale's Belt: Boxing's Most Coveted Prize. Pitch Publishing. ISBN 1785312545.
  • Anon (2013). Clashes of the Boxing Greats - Accounts of the Contests at the Beginning of the 20th Century - Boxers Included are James Corbett, John L. Sullivan, Jack Johnson, James J. Jefferies, Georges Carpentier and many more. Read Books Ltd. ISBN 1473380553.
  • W., Buchanan-Taylor (1947). What Do You Know about Boxing?. Pennsylvania State University: Cranton Heath.
  • Carpenter, Harry (1965). Masters of boxing. the University of California: A.S. Barnes.
  • Mullan, Harry (1987). Great Book of Boxing. Crescent Books. ISBN 0517629534.
  • Arnold, Peter (1989). The illustrated encyclopedia of world boxing. Pennsylvania State University: Golden Press.

==External links==

Achievements
Earns Lonsdale Belt outright British Middleweight Champion
28 January 1918 – retires 		Succeeded by


As always, happy to listen to and act on advise and feedback.

Kind regards, Okeeffemarc (talk) 13:53, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Personally I'm happy for your version to replace the current page. It's certainly going to be an improvement on what's there now. If there are any issues still to be sorted they can be done in mainspace. --Michig (talk) 16:58, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Hello Michig if there is a consensus for that then i'd happily submit it to WP:PR once it was on the mainspace, and act on all their suggestions to improve the Article through the WP:COI process. Okeeffemarc (talk) 02:10, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the current proposal: You are aware that it comprises only two paragraphs, correct? I'm ready too move on this version if that is the case. But I'm curious why so much of what you wanted to add has now been removed, especially in light of your comment about putting it through WP:PR. Please advise. Spintendo      20:04, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Hello Spintendo, The latest COI request i put in was the lead and the first sub heading, along with the refs and "see also" etc at the end. I only put these in as i was going to try and pass a few paragraphs per request. Im of course happy to either do that or implement the entire proposed article at once if you are? Okeeffemarc (talk) 20:26, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

PS. Either way, il certainly use the WP:PR process to improve the article once it's all on the mainspace. Don't want to contribute poor work. Okeeffemarc (talk) 20:32, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Hi spintendo. Noob query; Do i need to re-activate the edit request template? Kind regards, Okeeffemarc (talk) 23:41, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
The direction I received back was that the best place for it was as a COI edit request. I'm going to decline that request per:
  1. WP:NEWSBRIEF - The article as it stands is mostly a collection of newspaper articles.
  2. WP:ROUTINE - These newspaper articles consist mostly of routine coverage of fights that the subject participated in.
  3. WP:NBOX - The requirements for a boxer's notability have not been demonstrated and/or highlighted for the reviewer to gauge.
Please feel free to reopen your edit request when these missing parameters are addressed. Spintendo      21:11, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
He was British champion and fought for a European title. Notability is not in question. Newspaper articles are fine for verification. --Michig (talk) 21:29, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
Then I'll leave it to Michig to carry out these changes. Okeeffemarc you're in more than capable hands, good luck to you. Regards, Spintendo      01:28, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Request edit (removed by requester) on 9 March 2018

Latest comment: 6 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion
Hello Spintendo, i do appreciate you taking a look. Thanks for your advice and tips.

Michig would you be happy to publish?

Extended content

{{Use dmy dates|date=June 2015}} {{Use British English|date=June 2015}} {{Infobox boxer | name = Pat O'Keeffe | image = Pat O'Keeffe.jpg | nationality = British | height ={{height|ft=5|in=9+1/2}} | reach = | weight = [[Welterweight]], [[Middleweight]], [[heavyweight]]. | birth_date = {{Birth date|1883|3|17|df=y}} | birth_place = [[Bromley-by-Bow]], [[England]] | death_date = {{death date and age|df=yes|1960|08|16|1883|03|17}} | style =Orthodox | total = 110<!--Sourced in the "External links" section--> | wins = 78<!--Sourced in the "External links" section--> | KO = 33<!--Sourced in the "External links" section--> | losses = 24<!--Sourced in the "External links" section--> | draws = 6<!--Sourced in the "External links" section--> |death_place=[[Harrow, London|Harrow]], [[Middlesex]], England|no contests=1}}'''Pat O'Keeffe''' (17 March 1883 – 16 August 1960, spelled by many sources as '''Pat O'Keefe'''), is a former professional [[England|English]] [[Boxing|boxer]] who became [[British people|British]] champion at both [[Welterweight|welter]] and [[middleweight]]. His professional career spanned between 1902 and 1918, and in 1914 he made an unsuccessful bid at the European Heavyweight belt, losing to [[Georges Carpentier]].<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000276/19140120/120/0003|title=NEWBURY MEETING|last=|first=|date=20 January 1914|work=Sheffield Evening Telegraph|access-date=8 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> Between 1907 and 1910 he left Britain and continued his boxing career firstly in the [[United States]], and then [[Australia]]. On the outbreak of [[World War I|World War One]] he joined the [[British Army during World War I|British Army]] to work as a [[Physical training instructor|Physical Training Instructor]] (PTI) and [[Recruiting sergeant|Recruiting Sergeant]] for the [[1st Surrey Rifles]].<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/BL/0000560/19141026/090/0010?browse=False|title=rifleman Pat O'Keeffe|last=|first=|date=26 October 1914|work=Daily Mirror|access-date=12 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> He won the [[Lonsdale Belt]] outright when he defeated [[Bandsman Jack Blake|Bandsman Blake]] at the [[National Sporting Club]] (N.S.C) on 28 January 1918, becoming [[British Middleweight Championship|British Middleweight Champion]] and winning the Lonsdale belt outright.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19180129/015/0001|title=VETERAN'S LONSDALE BELT|last=|first=|date=29 January 1918|work=The Sportsman|access-date=8 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref>. O'Keeffe died on 16 August 1960 at the [[Mount Vernon Hospital]] in [[Middlesex]], aged 77.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000769/19600817/127/0013|title=Pat O'Keefe dead|last=|first=|date=17 August 1960|work=Coventry Evening Telegraph|access-date=7 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> == Professional boxing == === Early career:1902-1907 === One of the earliest of his recorded fights was against [[Jack Palmer (boxer)|Jack Palmer]].<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19021103/032/0002|title=TRAMPING TO BRIGHTON|last=|first=|date=3 November 1902|work=Sporting Life|access-date=12 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe defeated Palmer on two occasions over six rounds during 1902.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19021113/073/0004|title=THE SPORTSMAN THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 13,1902|last=|first=|date=13 November 1902|work=The Sportsman|access-date=12 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> In 1903, at the age of twenty, he beat [[Jack Kingsland]] in a match fought at [[Olympia, London|Olympia]] to win the title of Welterweight Champion of England.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://boxrec.com/en/event/246553/414684|title=Pat O'Keeffe vs Jack Kingsland|last=|first=|date=|website=BoxRec|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|access-date=}}</ref> In 1906, having fought many of the top contenders for the British Middleweight Title, O'Keeffe was elected to contest the championship. O’Keeffe won the title beating [[Mike Crawley (boxer)|Mike Crawley]] in a fight that lasted fifteen rounds.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19060320/083/0004|title=15 round contest|last=|first=|date=20 March 1906|work=Sporting Life|access-date=11 February 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> One month later, O'Keeffe defended the title against [[Charlie Allum (boxer)|Charlie Allum]] and knocked him out in the sixth round.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19060424/073/0004|title=O'Keeffe defeats Allum|last=|first=|date=24 April 1906|work=The Sportsman|access-date=10 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe lost his belt the very next bout to [[Thomas Thomas (boxer)|Tom Thomas]] at the N.S.C. By a narrow points margin.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19060529/045/0002|title=closing night of the season|last=|first=|date=29 May 1906|work=Sporting Life|access-date=12 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> a year later in Paris, O'Keeffe defeated Allum again by knock out and won two hundred pounds. This bout was billed the French Middleweight Championship.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19070302/104/0007|title=Boxing Items|last=|first=|date=2 March 1907|work=Sporting Life|access-date=10 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe never defended the claim. === International career:1907-1910 === After losing the British Championship title, O'Keeffe travelled the world and fought all over the United States and Australia. In 1907, O'Keeffe fought [[List of middleweight boxing champions|World Middleweight Champion]] [[Billy Papke]] and [[List of welterweight boxing champions|World Welterweight Champion]] [[Harry Lewis (boxer)|Henry Lewis]]. with just over a month of rest in between. The match in [[Philadelphia]] with Papke was a very hard fought for draw <ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19071112/072/0004|title=Ten Rounds Contest|last=|first=|date=12 November 1907|work=Sporting Life|access-date=13 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> and he lost his bout with Henry Lewis by a points decision in [[Boston|Boston, Massachusetts]]. The bout was originally scheduled for 19 December 1907 but was stopped by the Police.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19080104/133/0007|title=Pat O'Keeffe's farewell matches|last=|first=|date=4 January 1908|work=The Sportsman|access-date=11 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> The fight went ahead on the 23 December 1907. Just 3 days later O'Keeffe fought his final bout in the US against [[Willie Lewis (boxer)|Willie Lewis]] in [[New York (state)|New York]]. Lewis is said to have entered O'Keeffe's dressing room just before the fight, berating his apparent belly, quipping that he might kill him if he punched him there.<ref>{{Cite book|title=Refereeing 1000 Fights - Reminiscences of Boxing|last=Corri|first=Eugene|publisher=Read Books Ltd|year=2013|isbn=1447486560|location=|pages=|chapter=IX}}</ref> O'Keeffe lost by knock out.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19080109/099/0004|title=Pat O'Keeffe knocked out|last=|first=|date=9 January 1908|work=Sporting Life|access-date=11 February 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> Despite not winning a bout in the US, O'Keeffe was upbeat and In February 1908, he returned to England with a message in ''Sporting Life,'' declaring that "he is here for business", in a wide ranging article that revealed he contracted Malaria in the US, the article claims that anyone who wanted to challenge that statement need only send money to ''[[Sporting Life (British newspaper)|Sporting Life]]'', with correspondence addressed to O'Keeffe and it would receive his immediate attention.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/BL/0000893/19080203/107/0005?browse=False|title=return of Pat O'Keeffe|last=|first=|date=3 February 1908|work=Sporting Life|access-date=14 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> Answering his message in the ''Sporting Life'', O'Keeffe's next bout was at the end of March on foreign soil where he drew against fellow [[Canning Town]] boxer [[Steve Smith (boxer)|Steve Smith]] at the Wonderland Francais, Paris.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19080401/083/0003|title=Contests in Paris|last=|first=|date=1 April 1908|work=The Sportsman|access-date=14 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> Less than 2 weeks later at the same venue, O'Keeffe was disqualified for a low blow in the 4th round against [[Jeff Thorne (boxer)|Jeff Thorne.]]<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000893/19080413/114/0006|title=Contests In Paris|last=|first=|date=13 April 1908|work=Sporting Life|access-date=14 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> [[File:Signed picture of Pat O'Keeffe in Australia.png|thumb|256x256px|A signed photo of Pat O'Keeffe found in Australia. Taken circa 1908<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-148529894|title=Portrait of Pat O'Keeffe, English middleweight boxer who fought in Australia|last=|first=|date=1908|website=[[NLA]]|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|access-date=2 February 2018}}</ref>. ]] Later that year, O'Keeffe toured Australia with [[Tommy Burns (boxer)|Tommy Burns]], the [[World Heavyweight Champion|world Heavyweight champion]]. At 5’7", Burns is the shortest boxer ever to hold the title<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.boxingmonthly.com/heavyweight-countdown/ranking-the-heavyweight-champions-no-23-tommy-burns/|title=Ranking the heavyweight champions: No. 23 Tommy Burns|last=|first=|date=|website=Boxing Monthly|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|access-date=21 January 2018}}</ref> which he had won in 1906.<ref>{{Cite news|url=http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2017/02/23/canada-history-feb-23-1906-a-canadian-becomes-one-of-the-greatest-heavyweight-boxers-ever/|title=Canada history: feb 23, 1906|last=|first=|date=23 February 2017|work=[[RCI]]|access-date=11 February 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=}}</ref> He also managed to successfully defend it eleven times against all claimants until he met with [[Jack Johnson (boxer)|Jack Johnson]] on Boxing Day in 1908. While in Australia, O'Keeffe and Burns trained together and used to invite the public to watch these exhibitions of their skills.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001499/19080827/212/0010|title=Tommy Burns J World's Champion|last=|first=|date=27 August 1908|work=Cornubian and Redruth Times|access-date=14 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe fought a number of contests in Australia, mostly against heavier opponents. winning 2, drawing 1 and losing 3.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/32179|title=Pat O'Keeffe Bout record|last=|first=|date=|website=[[BoxRec]]|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|access-date=14 January 2018}}</ref> === Late career:1911-1918 === He did not fight in England again until 1911, when he fought [[Eddie McGoorty|Eddie Mcgoorty]], losing on points over fifteen rounds.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001384/19110411/149/0006|title=Boxing: Eddie McGoorty vs Pat O'Keeffe|last=|first=|date=11 April 1911|work=Dublin Daily Express|access-date=21 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> McGoorty went on to become world champion in 1915.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000687/19150802/187/0008|title=Eddie McGoorty Defeated|last=|first=|date=2 August 1915|work=Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer|access-date=11 February 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> After losing to McGoorty, O'Keeffe fought and won the next five fight's between 1911-1913. His next defeat was a points decision against Private.Harris<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000321/19130211/054/0008|title=Sporting Paragraphs|last=|first=|date=11 February 1911|work=Nottingham Evening Post|access-date=21 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> which he reversed over twenty rounds two months later,<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000321/19130503/060/0008|title=Sporting Paragraphs|last=|first=|date=3 May 1913|work=Nottingham Evening Post|access-date=21 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> after defeating [[Frank Mantell (boxer)|Frank Mantell]] twice in 7 days.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000164/19130416/140/0007|title=AMERICAN CHAMPION BOXER MAKES POOR APPEARANCE! IN LONDON, AND IS EASILY BEATEN BY PAT O'KEEFFE.|last=|first=|date=16 April 1913|work=Dundee Courier|access-date=21 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> on 4 August 1913 he challenged [[Bombardier Billy Wells]] for the British Heavyweight Championship. O'Keeffe put up a good show against this tall heavyweight who was almost three stones heavier. Wells succeeded in knocking O'Keeffe out in the fifteenth round after a hard fight.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000164/19130805/045/0004|title=Another Victory For Wells|last=|first=|date=5 August 1913|work=Dundee Courier|access-date=21 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe's next bout was against the young prodigy [[Georges Carpentier]]. The match was billed as for the Heavyweight Championship of Europe although both men were under the light heavyweight weight limit. O'Keeffe was knocked out in two rounds by the man who at the time appeared capable of beating all of Europe’s boxers in quick succession.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000687/19140121/259/0014|title=CARPENTIERS LATEST VICTORY|last=|first=|date=21 January 1914|work=Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer|access-date=9 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe gave a simple no nonsense reason for his defeat to the ''Sheffield Daily Telegraph:'' "He was too big and strong for me."<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000250/19140124/347/0013|title=O'Keeffe's opinion of Carpentier|last=|first=|date=24 January 1914|work=Sheffield Daily Telegraph|access-date=28 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> His next fight was against [[Harry Reeve|Henry Reeve]] for the British Middleweight Championship on 2 February 1914. O'Keeffe won on points over twenty rounds.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000687/19140224/217/0010|title=Pat O'Keeffe defeats Harry Reeve on points|last=|first=|date=24 February 1914|work=Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer|access-date=9 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> Later Reeve moved up to the light heavyweight division and won the British championship in 1916 against [[Dick Smith (boxer)|Dick Smith]].<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000290/19161031/143/0006|title=Boxing Championship|last=|first=|date=31 October 1916|work=Portsmouth Evening News|access-date=9 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> [[File:Pat O'Keeffe vs Nicol Simpson.png|thumb|O'Keeffe (L) vs Simpson (R) 27 April 1914 |205x205px]] O'Keeffe successfully defended his Middleweight title two months later against [[Nichol Simpson (boxer)|Nichol Simpson]].<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000560/19140428/173/0016|title=Pat O'Keeffe beats Nicol Simpson on points.|last=|first=|date=28 April 1914|work=Daily Mirror|access-date=11 February 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> In May of the same year he earned his second notch on the belt by defeating [[Jim Sullivan (boxer)|Jim Sullivan]]<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000276/19140526/128/0006|title=MIDDLE-WEIGHT BELT|last=|first=|date=26 May 1914|work=Sheffield Evening Telegraph|access-date=9 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> who had himself held the belt in 1910 when he beat an old adversary of O'Keeffe's, Tom Thomas. O'Keeffe earned six hundred and fifty pounds for winning this fight. A year later in March 1915, he fought and knocked out the heavyweight, [[Joe Beckett]] in eight rounds.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000164/19150305/078/0004|title=victory for Pat O'Keeffe|last=|first=|date=5 March 1915|work=Dundee Courier|access-date=11 February 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> Following this O'Keeffe return fight with [[Jim Sullivan (boxer)|Jim Sullivan]]. Although the fight was billed as being for the British Middleweight Title, the fight was not endorsed by the N.S.C. Therefore the Lonsdale belt was not at stake on this occasion, The two met again on 21 February 1916. [[Jimmy Wilde]], the former Flyweight champion, described the fight as the most punishing he had ever seen.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000250/19160222/241/0010|title=BOXING. VICTORY FOR WELLS O’KEEFFE.|last=|first=|date=22 February 1916|work=Sheffield Daily Telegraph|access-date=8 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> Both men fought as though their lives depended on it. The ring and spectators sitting nearby were splashed with blood by the end of the battle and it can be seen from photographs of the event that Sullivan’s white shorts were dark with blood by the end of twenty rounds when O'Keeffe gained the decision.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000711/19160222/200/0006|title=BOXING CHAMPIONS|last=|first=|date=22 February 1916|work=Lancashire Evening Post|access-date=21 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> 2 months later O'Keeffe fought [[Bandsman Jack Blake|Bandsman Blake]] and knocked him out in the thirteenth round.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000250/19150511/153/0008|title=PAT O'KEEFFE WINS|last=|first=|date=11 May 1915|work=Sheffield Daily Telegraph|access-date=21 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> Blake had a fine record at this stage having lost to only one man to date in his five year professional career, [[Bombardier Billy Wells]].<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000771/19140304/173/0006|title=Wells Interviewed|last=|first=|date=4 March 1914|work=Liverpool Evening Express|access-date=11 February 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> [[File:O'keeffe vs Sullivan.jpg|thumb|275x275px|Sullivan (L) vs O'Keeffe (R). Sullivans white shorts dark with blood. 21 February 1916 ]] Just three months later, on 22 May 1916, O'Keeffe was at the N.S.C. To do battle with Bandsman Blake again. The £500 match went the full 20 rounds. "The contest was not a good one" according to the ''Sheffield Independent.'' In the 12th round, the referee gave both fighters a last warning that he'd order them both out of the ring if they did not alter their methods. The paper claimed blame for this messy fight lay squarely with Blake, citing his constant clinching and holding, which was employed to avoid the infighting quality of O'Keeffe. Blake won the contest on points, this verdict was "received by a crowded house with something almost akin to amazement", the ''Sheffield Independent'' states.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001464/19160523/062/0003|title=Hard luck on Pat O'Keeffe|last=|first=|date=23 May 1916|work=Sheffield Independent|access-date=21 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> Thus O'Keeffe lost both the Championship and his Lonsdale belt. Following this fight, both O'Keeffe and Blake were posted to France and the return fight demanded by the fans not take place until their return. On the 28 January 1918, O'Keeffe fought his last professional fight, defeating Blake to win the Lonsdale Belt outright along with an N.S.C Pension.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19180129/015/0001|title=Veterans Lonsdale Belt|last=|first=|date=29 January 1918|work=the Sportsman|access-date=1 March 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> In an article two days later, the ''Sportsman'' reported on the tributes being paid to O'Keeffe at the N.S.C. "No more popular ring victor in recent years has been seen than Sergt Pat O'Keeffe" it begins. [[Arthur Frederick Bettinson]], one of the founding members of the Club remarked on O'Keeffe's exploits, remembering his name on the belt in both 1914 and 1918 and congratulated O'Keeffe as a sportsman and a man. O'Keeffe replied to these tributes modestly, claiming that securing the Lonsdale Belt as his own was one of his key ambitions in his career. He would now concentrate on charity and family he said. O'Keeffe retired from professional boxing having made many lifelong friends.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19180130/058/0003|title=The Lonsdale Belt Presentation to Pat O'Keeffe|last=|first=|date=30 January 1918|work=The Sportsman|access-date=21 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> == Military service during World War I == [[File:Pat O'Keeffe, British Middleweight Champion, boxing exhibition.png|thumb|321x321px|O'Keeffe puts on punch ball exhibition for the [[1st Surrey Rifles]] during [[World War I]]]] At the start of 1915, O'Keeffe joined the [[1st Surrey Rifles]]. He was a Physical Training Instructor and Recruiting Sergeant. extract form an Article about O'Keeffe's recruiting skill:<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001914/19150717/014/0002|title=He wanted to serve|last=|first=|date=17 July 1915|work=Star Green 'un|access-date=21 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> {{Quote frame|...He was recently crossing London Bridge in company with his Sergeant-Major when from the other direction came a husky, healthy youth pushing milk cart. Said the Sergeant-Major to the Corporal There's a likely-looking recruit for you, Pat; try him." O'Keeffe approached his victim, prodded him in the chest with his little stick, and said: "Say, don't you want to serve your King?" Yus," answered the youth. " How many quarts will he want? ** The Bulletin does not complete the story, but prefer to believe that Pat gained another recruit that day, for the soft answer is no good against an Irishman...|3=He wanted to serve|4=Star Green 'un Via [[British Newspaper Archive]] 17 July 1915}}He found Army life (at the Regiment's home at [[Camberwell]] at least) suited his boxing training well. With good plain food, strict routine and drill, plenty of sparring partners and ample space to train, he thrived in a friendly atmosphere where he was very popular with the men.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/BL/0000729/19150502/238/0017?browse=False|title=All this weeks news from the boxing rings|last=|first=|date=2 May 1915|work=The people|access-date=27 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe and other boxer-turn-soldiers planned activities to help boost morale of injured troops, one such time was when they organised a boat trip down the Thames.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/BL/0001857/19150807/012/0006?browse=False|title=Wounded soldiers entertained on the river|last=|first=|date=7 August 1915|work=Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News|access-date=27 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> == Retirement == O'Keeffe remained a public figure for many years. He took a seat on the inaugural [[British Boxing Board of Control]] with fellow ex champion boxers [[Bombardier Billy Wells|Billy Wells]] and [[Jim Driscoll]].<ref>{{Cite book|title=Lonsdale's Belt: Boxing's Most Coveted Prize|last=Harding|first=John|publisher=Pitch Publishing|year=2016|isbn=1785312545|location=|pages=|chapter=7}}</ref> He participated in charity events, such as boxing an [[Aston Villa F.C.|Aston Villa]] footballer player,<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001914/19180309/010/0003|title=Footballer and Boxer|last=|first=|date=9 March 1918|work=Star Green 'un|access-date=27 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> refereed amateur tournaments and took part in charity exhibition matches, most notably with his old rival Bombardier Billy Wells.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001557/19270917/179/0009|title=Wells and O'Keeffe's boxing contest at the Market Halls|last=|first=|date=17 September 1927|work=Wiltshire Times and Trowbridge Advertiser|access-date=27 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> These exhibitions could some times get heated, with O'Keeffe said to have once shouted "''Stop it Billy! - I'm not the kaiser!''".<ref>{{Cite book|title=Thirty years a boxing referee|last=Corri|first=Eugene|publisher=Longmans, Green & Co|year=1915|isbn=|location=the New York Public Library|pages=189}}</ref> O'Keeffe was a regular star spectator at big bouts.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001055/19241119/045/0002|title=Palmer, O'Keeffe and summers|last=|first=|date=19 November 1924|work=The Sportsman|access-date=27 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000749/19240411/307/0014|title=Pat O'Keeffe, ex middleweight champion; Pat Condon and others will be present|last=|first=|date=11 April 1924|work=Bedfordshire Times and Independent|access-date=27 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> He also had his own boxing column in the [[Daily Herald (UK newspaper)|Daily Herald]] for a while<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000681/19190915/172/0008|title=Boxing by Pat O'Keeffe|last=|first=|date=15 September 1919|work=Daily Herald|access-date=27 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O'Keeffe carried on working. He was engaged in the licensing business, was a Publican<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000072/19150826/108/0011|title=Pat as a Publican|last=|first=|date=26 August 1915|work=Illustrated Police News|access-date=28 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> and was involved in bookmaking. He was employed as a boxing instructor for both the French and British Army in 1925.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/BL/0001898/19251009/173/0011?browse=False|title=Pat O'Keeffe to teach two armies Boxing|last=|first=|date=9 October 1925|work=Nottingham Journal|access-date=27 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> In March 1938, the N.S.C. Moved into new premises in [[Piccadilly]] and held a banquet to honour the occasion. There were hosts of fighters presented including many of the old timers, [[Jimmy Wilde]], [[Bombardier Billy Wells|Billy Wells]], [[Teddy Baldock]], [[Pedlar Palmer]], [[Tancy Lee]], [[Johnny Basham]] and O'Keeffe.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001857/19380408/046/0040|title=Danahar--Champion Within a Year: Certain Defeat turned into Glorious Victory over Cameron|last=|first=|date=8 April 1938|work=Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News|access-date=8 January 2018|archive-url=|archive-date=|dead-url=|subscription=yes|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}</ref> O’Keeffe died 16 August 1960 at the age of 77. ==Professional boxing record== <!--Sourced in the "External links" section--> {{BoxingRecordSummary |draws=7 |nc=1 |ko-wins=33 |ko-losses=10 |dec-wins=44 |dec-losses=13 |dq-wins=1 |dq-losses=1 }} {{s-start}} | style="text-align:center;" colspan="8"|'''Notable bouts''' |- style="text-align:center; background:#e3e3e3;" | style="border-style:none none solid solid; "|'''Res.''' | style="border-style:none none solid solid; "|'''Record''' | style="border-style:none none solid solid; "|'''Opponent''' | style="border-style:none none solid solid; "|'''Type''' | style="border-style:none none solid solid; "|'''Round''' | style="border-style:none none solid solid; "|'''Date''' | style="border-style:none none solid solid; "|'''Location''' | style="border-style:none none solid solid; "|'''Notes''' |- align=center |{{yes2}}Win |73-24-7 |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|UK}} [[Bandsman Jack Blake]]}} |{{small|KO}} |{{small|2(20)}} |{{small|1918-01-28}} |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|UK}} NSC, Covent garden, [[London]]}} |align=left|{{small|[[List of British middleweight boxing champions|Regains British Middleweight title]]}} |- align=center |{{no2}}loss |72-23-7 |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|UK}} [[bandsman Jack Blake]]}} |{{small|PTS}} |{{small|20}} |{{small|1916-05-22}} |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|UK}} NSC, Covent garden, London}} |align=left|{{small|[[List of British middleweight boxing champions|Loses British Middleweight title]]}} |- align=center |{{yes2}}win |60-23-7 |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|UK}} [[Harry Reeve]]}} |{{small|PTS}} |{{small|20}} |{{small|1914-02-23}} |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|UK}} NSC, Covent garden, London}} |align=left|{{small|[[List of British middleweight boxing champions|Wins British Middleweight title]]}} |- align=center |{{no2}}loss |60-22-7 |align=left|{{small|{{flag icon|FRA}} [[Georges Carpentier]]}} |{{small|KO}} |{{small|2(20)}} |{{small|1914-01-19}} |align=left|{{small|{{flag icon|FRA}} Eldorado-Casino, [[Nice]]}} |align=left|{{small|European Heavyweight title attempt}} |-align=center |{{no2}}loss |59-20-7 |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|UK}} [[Bombardier Billy Wells]]}} |{{small|KO}} |{{small|15(20)}} |{{small|1914-08-04}} |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|UK}}The Ring, Blackfriars Road, [[Southwark]], London}} |align=left|{{small|[[List of British heavyweight boxing champions|British Heavyweight title attempt]]}} |-align=center |{{no2}}loss |48-14-6 |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|AUS}} Ed Williams}} |{{small|KO}} |{{small|15(20)}} |{{small|1908-10-26}} |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|AUS}} [[Cyclorama]], [[Melbourne]]}} |align=left|{{small|Australian Middleweight title attempt}} |-align=center |style="background:#abcdef;"|Draw |48-11-4 |align=left|{{small|{{flag icon|USA}} [[Billy Papke]]}} |{{small|PTS}} |{{small|6}} |{{small|1907-11-09}} |align=left|{{small|{{flag icon|USA}} National A.C., [[Philadelphia]]}} |align=left|{{small|Papke later went on to become [[List of middleweight boxing champions|World Middleweight Champion]]}} |-align=center |{{yes2}}win |28-10-4 |align=left|{{small|{{flag icon|UK}}Mike Crawley}} |{{small|PTS}} |{{small|15}} |{{small|1906-03-19}} |align=left|{{small|{{flag icon|UK}} NSC, Covent garden, London}} |align=left|{{small|[[List of British heavyweight boxing champions|Wins British middleweight title]]}} |-align=center |{{yes2}}win |6-1-0 |align=left|{{small|{{flag icon|UK}} [[Jack Kingsland]]}} |{{small|PTS}} |{{small|20}} |{{small|1903-01-02}} |align=left|{{small|{{Flag icon|UK}} [[Olympia]], [[Kensington]], London}} |align=left|{{small|Wins British welterwieght Title}} {{s-end}} == See also == * [[List of British middleweight boxing champions]] * [[List of British welterweight boxing champions]] * [[Lonsdale Belt]] ==References== {{Reflist|}} == General references == * {{cite book |last=Lee |first=Tony |coauthors= |title=All in My Corner: A tribute to some forgotten Welsh boxing heroes |year=2009 |publisher=TL Associates |location=Ammanford |isbn=978-0-9564456-0-5}} * {{Cite book|title=Australian Boxing World Champions|last=Ingram|first=Brian|publisher=Xlibris Corporation|year=2012|isbn=1477107290|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Refereeing 1000 Fights - Reminiscences of Boxing|last=Corri|first=Eugene|publisher=Read Books Ltd|year=2013|isbn=1447486560|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=The Battle of the Century: Dempsey, Carpentier, and the Birth of Modern Promotion|last=Waltzer|first=Jim|publisher=ABC-CLIO|year=2011|isbn=0313382441|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title="Seconds Out!": Chats about Boxers, Their Trainers and Patrons|last=Dartnell|first=Fred|publisher=T. W. Laurie, Limited|year=1924|isbn=|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Ring Battles of Centuries|last=Diegle|first=C.R.|publisher=Tom Andrews Record Book Company|year=1924|isbn=|location=University of Minnesota|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Lonsdale's Belt: The Story of Boxing's Greatest Prize|last=Harding|first=John|publisher=Robson|year=1994|isbn=0860518469|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Irish Guards: The First Hundred Years 1900-2000|last=Guards|first=Irish|publisher=Spellmount|year=2000|isbn=1862270694|location=the University of Michigan|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Daily Mail Year Book|last=Parker|first=percy Livingstone|publisher=Associated Newspapers Groups, Limited|year=1925|isbn=|location=the University of Michigan|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Country Life, Volume 46|last=|first=|publisher=|year=1919|isbn=|location=Princeton University|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Fight Pictures: A History of Boxing and Early Cinema|last=Strieble|first=Dan|publisher=University of California Press|year=2008|isbn=052094058X|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Popular Culture in London C.1890-1918: The Transformation of Entertainment|last=Horrall|first=Andrew|publisher=Manchester University Press|year=2001|isbn=0719057833|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=The Boxing Register: International Boxing Hall of Fame Official Record Book|last=Roberts|first=James B|publisher=McBooks Press|year=2006|isbn=1590131215|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Lonsdale's Belt: Boxing's Most Coveted Prize|last=Harding|first=John|publisher=Pitch Publishing|year=2016|isbn=1785312545|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Clashes of the Boxing Greats - Accounts of the Contests at the Beginning of the 20th Century - Boxers Included are James Corbett, John L. Sullivan, Jack Johnson, James J. Jefferies, Georges Carpentier and many more|last=Anon|first=|publisher=Read Books Ltd|year=2013|isbn=1473380553|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=What Do You Know about Boxing?|last=W.|first=Buchanan-Taylor|publisher=Cranton Heath|year=1947|isbn=|location=Pennsylvania State University|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Masters of boxing|last=Carpenter|first=Harry|publisher=A.S. Barnes|year=1965|isbn=|location=the University of California|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=Great Book of Boxing|last=Mullan|first=Harry|publisher=Crescent Books|year=1987|isbn=0517629534|location=|pages=}} * {{Cite book|title=The illustrated encyclopedia of world boxing|last=Arnold|first=Peter|publisher=Golden Press|year=1989|isbn=|location=Pennsylvania State University|pages=}} * ==External links== * {{boxrec|id=32179|name=Pat O'Keeffe}} {{s-start}} {{s-ach|ach}} |- {{s-non | reason = Earns Lonsdale Belt outright }} {{s-ttl | title = [[List of British middleweight boxing champions#Middlewight|British Middleweight Champion]] | years = 28 January 1918 – retires }} {{s-aft | after = [[Ted "Kid" Lewis|Ted "Kid" Lewis]] }} {{s-end}} {{Subject bar |portal1=England |portal2=boxing |portal3=Biography |commons=yes |commons-search=Category:Pat O'Keeffe|q=y |q-search=Pat O'Keeffe|d=y |d-search=Q7143866}} {{Authority control}}

"No wiki'ed" so it will fit in the collapsed template.

Kind regards, Okeeffemarc (talk) 22:06, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Placed wikitext into sandbox. Final result is here (copy-edit update here). Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). This message was left at 20:42, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
@Okeeffemarc: Edit seems to be okay, no neutral point of view violations seen. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). This message was left at 00:54, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

@TheDragonFire300: Thank you, just hoping someone would be happy to publish it. Kind regards, Okeeffemarc (talk) 00:49, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

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