Talk:Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada
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Name of the grounds edit
I understand the desire to rename this page as Páirc Sheáin Mhic Dhiarmada, which would be the correct name for the grounds if conventional Irish grammatical rules were being followed, but on Wikipedia we use either the common name as appears in English media print or the official name. In both instances the grounds are named Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada, as can be seen in this communiqué from the GAA themselves. Mac Tíre Cowag 20:14, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- The official name is Páirc Sheáin Mhic Dhiarmada. A mistake in an English-language GAA web page doesn't change that. Brocach (talk) 20:41, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- The spelling at the entrance to the grounds is "Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada". The spelling in matchday programmes is "Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada". The spelling according to Leitrim GAA is "Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada". The spelling according to the GAA is "Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada". The common name in English is "Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada". I don't like it, but as the official name and the most common English language name, it must remain at "Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada".
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- I never said I liked it. I always give out every time I pass by (1-2 times a week). But as the official and common name, and according to Wikipedia policy, it must remain at Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada. Mac Tíre Cowag 21:14, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- You are absolutely right, Mac Tíre, about frequency, but that isn't the beginning and end of it. This is clearly supposed to be an Irish-language name (otherwise why not "John McDermot Park"?). In English-language sources the name of the stadium is very commonly mis-spelt, according to the rules of Irish orthography. But consider e.g. Sinn Féin, twice as common in English-language sources without the e fada, but (properly) accorded the é in Wikipedia, with redirects from the common mis-spelling. The same might be true of Fianna Fáil, Raidio Téilifís Éireann etc. etc. - where the name is in a language other than English, WP tends to ignore the weighting of mis-spellings as Béarla.
- The other question is what the "official" name of the Páirc is. I'm digging a bit deeper on that one, and while I realise that original research isn't admissible I might be led to a reliable secondary source. Let the hare sit for a week or two and who knows, we might shame Leitrim GAA into fixing their signage. Brocach (talk) 00:04, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- Using Sinn Féin is a misnomer. Sinn Féin themselves spell it with the "é". The correct version is also the official version. This is not the case with Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada. You also mentioned Raidió Teilifís Éireann - this is an appropriate example, actually. Until recently this organisation was known by the official, albeit incorrect, Irish language version - Radio Telefís Éireann. Wikipedia reflected this and had an article located at this latter name, and not the former, until the organisation's name changed to reflect accurate Irish grammar and spelling conventions. The same should be the case with Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada. As I said before, I find it hideous. My pronunciation of the ground's name doesn't reflect at all on its spelling (naturally); but until the name is changed there is nothing we can do about it. For us to go ahead, in spite of common English language usage and in spite of the official name, and change the name to reflect accurately what the name should be would constitute original research. Mac Tíre Cowag 08:27, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- Having dug deeper, I reluctantly agree with the revert. Original research this may be, but I contacted a Leitrim GAA official who tells me that the present version was adopted in the 1960s at a time when there was some debate at a national level over whether the genitive should be used in commemorative namings (e.g. 'Sráid Ó Conaill'). A clear scholarly consensus favouring the genitive eventually emerged, but the current chair of Leitrim GAA, though a Gaelgeoir, has decided that the Páirc's nominative version is so long established that it should be left alone. However, the new stand was properly named Ardán Mhic Shamhráin, and when new grounds were opened in Ballinamore in 2009, the name adopted was Páirc Sheáin Uí Eislin. So, even if this misnaming stands for now, it seems that the correct forms are now preferred. Perhaps the County Board will put this right at some point. For now, I have added an explanatory note to the article textBrocach (talk) 18:11, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
- I think an explanatory note is indeed appropriate. It's a shame that there appears to be no plans for a renaming. Indeed your point about commemorative naming can be witnessed on street signs throughout the country. Maybe in due time they will realise their folly and correct the name! Mac Tíre Cowag 08:19, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- Having dug deeper, I reluctantly agree with the revert. Original research this may be, but I contacted a Leitrim GAA official who tells me that the present version was adopted in the 1960s at a time when there was some debate at a national level over whether the genitive should be used in commemorative namings (e.g. 'Sráid Ó Conaill'). A clear scholarly consensus favouring the genitive eventually emerged, but the current chair of Leitrim GAA, though a Gaelgeoir, has decided that the Páirc's nominative version is so long established that it should be left alone. However, the new stand was properly named Ardán Mhic Shamhráin, and when new grounds were opened in Ballinamore in 2009, the name adopted was Páirc Sheáin Uí Eislin. So, even if this misnaming stands for now, it seems that the correct forms are now preferred. Perhaps the County Board will put this right at some point. For now, I have added an explanatory note to the article textBrocach (talk) 18:11, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
- Using Sinn Féin is a misnomer. Sinn Féin themselves spell it with the "é". The correct version is also the official version. This is not the case with Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada. You also mentioned Raidió Teilifís Éireann - this is an appropriate example, actually. Until recently this organisation was known by the official, albeit incorrect, Irish language version - Radio Telefís Éireann. Wikipedia reflected this and had an article located at this latter name, and not the former, until the organisation's name changed to reflect accurate Irish grammar and spelling conventions. The same should be the case with Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada. As I said before, I find it hideous. My pronunciation of the ground's name doesn't reflect at all on its spelling (naturally); but until the name is changed there is nothing we can do about it. For us to go ahead, in spite of common English language usage and in spite of the official name, and change the name to reflect accurately what the name should be would constitute original research. Mac Tíre Cowag 08:27, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
External links modified edit
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