Talk:Otis Spann

Memphis Minnie

Can we have a ref for Spann's mother having played with Memphis Minnie? As she was apparently very religious and disapproved of blues, it seems unlikely to me. Haldraper (talk) 17:48, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Possible copyright problem

This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Diannaa (talk) 21:01, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Categories

I've added "Blues songs" as a category. 2 things: (i) How does one get Otis Spann to appear in the Blues songs page? Is it automatic? (ii) And is it really necessary to have the categories "Cancer deaths in Illinois" and "Deaths from liver cancer"? It seems to lower the tone somewhat! Arrivisto (talk) 18:49, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

(i) Sorry, but song categories are only for articles specifically about songs (see WP:MUSCAT and WP:SONGS#Categories). (ii) Probably not, but at least it's out of the way at the bottom of the page. Also, the "many consider..." is paraphrased from the AllMusic ref, so no need for the tags. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:16, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry

Sorry if this is the wrong place but where is the justification for the statement that Big Maceo played in Muddy Waters band? Also there is no definitive evidence as far as I know that Spann played on Chuck Berry sessions. It is always listed in discographies as either Johnnie Johnson or Otis Spann — Preceding unsigned comment added by Labocetta (talk • contribs) 17:18, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

@Labocetta: The source for "He replaced Merriweather as Muddy Waters's piano player in late 1952" is the linked article from Living Blues, which is usually considered reliable. But I couldn't find any mention of Maceo performing as a member of Muddy's band in Robert Gordon's bio, Muddy Waters: Can't Be Satisfied (2002). Also, in Wight and Rothwell's Muddy Waters discography (1991) Maceo is not listed in the song entries up to 1954. Berry's 1988 Chess box does show Spann on piano for "You Can't Catch Me" and two other songs recorded in December 1955. Maybe Ghmyrtle has some info on this. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:29, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

I don't have any information on whether Big Maceo played with Muddy Waters other than what is written in sources. For instance, this encyclopedia entry on Otis Spann also says that he replaced Big Maceo in Muddy's band in 1953. Both that encyclopedia and the Living Blues piece seem to date from 2014, so it's difficult to know which was first, or the origin of the information. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:34, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

@Labocetta:, @Ghmyrtle: I scanned several Maceo bios and none mention that he was a member of Muddy's band or even played with him. He had a "major stroke" around 1946 that severely limited his playing and didn't do much after. I did find a possible source of the confusion. In David Dicaire's Blues Singers (1994), a discussion of influential Chicago blues pianists includes "Spann was also the single most important piano player of his era ... In Chicago's blues hierarchy, Spann inherited Big Maceo Merriweather's piano stool." (p.122) Dicaire had discussed Maceo's earlier importance and influence and sees Spann succeeding Maceo in this regard.

Propose to remove "He replaced Merriweather as Muddy Waters's piano player in late 1952". Since it is not an important point in a Spann bio, I don't think it's worth a footnote or explanation. The mention of recording with Berry seems OK, but needs a ref. Any other suggestions? —Ojorojo (talk) 14:17, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

I'm in a Facebook group that has some globally-acknowledged blues scholars. Shall I ask there? Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:22, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Given the fact that Maceo was out of the picture by the time, I'm confident that it's just a slip on the part of Living Blues and the music encyclopedia. It doesn't seem important, but it's up to you. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:45, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Muddy Waters was playing in Chicago from about 1944. Big Maceo's stroke was in 1946, but he continued to perform (at least, sing and play one-handed) after that - so it is possible that they performed together but did not record. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:19, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

It's entirely possible, blues musicians are well-known for sitting in with others. But I don't see anything to support him as a member of Muddy's band or Spann replacing him. Ask the experts if you think additional confirmation would be a good idea. Spann's playing with Berry is discussed in James Perone's Listen to the Blues!,[1] so I'll add that as a ref. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:40, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

The consensus is certainly that the source is wrong, so I suggest we use a wording like: "He became Muddy Waters's piano player in late 1952." Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:30, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Done. I also added Perone's comment about pitch blending – I didn't know pianists could do this. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:47, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

I think that is the correct solution.I think if he was in anybody's band it was Tampa Red's. As to Spann recording with Berry, I've found to be accurate (I've been a Berry fan for 60 years), and he says it is not definitively known whether it was Spann or Johnson. He points out that Ebby Hardy, Chuck's regular drummer, was on the session, so it would be rather odd if his regular piano player was not. Perhaps one day a musicologist will be able to differentiate their styles. Labocetta (talk) 21:19, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Looks like a case of conflicting sources. The Berry Chess box session info (which lists Spann) is "culled from the Chess files, from "The Chess Labels, Volumes 1 & 2" by Michel Ruppil (Greenwood Press), and from "The Autobiography" by Chuck Berry (Harmony Books)". Spann is listed by Ruppil,[2] but I couldn't access the bio. A googlebook search shows several mentions that Spann played on some Berry recording sessions.[3] Do any of your sources say that Spann played on other Berry songs? —Ojorojo (talk) 15:35, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

References

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