Talk:Organic fish

Big copy edit, doubts about facts

Someone should check this over and maybe update/flesh it out. Removing a lot of sentences that say over and over that organic fish are good for consumers and the environment. Trying to leave actual referenced facts Elinruby (talk) 14:59, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

two sections still untouched. Desperately need copyedit Elinruby (talk) 16:05, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

@Elinruby: I just came from bemoaning the WP:ESSAY qualities of another similar article to this one. I see a pattern with well-intended Wiki-ed projects from 2019, but ANYWAY the lede is really bad, and it's contradicted at the bottom where it says "there's no such thing as organic fish in the wild" due to not clearly explaining that 'organic' mainly applied to farmed fish.

I think there's probably enough popular interest in organic this-and-that (mostly due to marketing) that could make deleting or merging controversial, but I would support a TNT and a slim rewrite based on any reasonable sources that are here. That is, I'm happy to support someone else doing so, but I'd also be willing to carry it out if I get an 'okay'. Cheers, Estheim (talk) 18:18, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree that this article needs a serious cut and rewrite, given the low quality sourcing and disorganization. It you have the time and interest, I encourage you to go ahead and make changes. I will take a look for some better sources and add them here if I find some.Dialectric (talk) 18:36, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

I made some major edits: I know some folks get really fussy about a lot of action in a single edit, but that's structural overhaul for ya. I removed a few sources that were only about non-fish organic foods since the 'general facts' contributed to a lot of WP:ESSAY issues, imo. I moved stuff into what I think is a more sensible format, which unveiled more redundant language to cut. I get that can be pretty subjective, so if I really blew it, you can revert it, but please for pity's sake give me some gentle feedback if you do. If anyone wants to fix MY edits, just go for it.

I added a few things from some of the better existing sources, and I'll probably mine them for more info. I also probably separated some citations from their text, and I need to check them anyway, so "Work in Progress". I'd like to know if what I did is sort of on the right track per other's opinions, and also I'm going to sleep so I can continue with a fresher brain. Ping for @Dialectric: and anyone else. Cheers! Estheim (talk) 05:57, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

I am completely fine with anything anyone wants to do with the article. I was there as a copy editor — I guess it was flagged on some list as needing one — and have no special interest in or knowledge of the topic. I try to do my deep dives on topics other people can’t do for language reasons (sources in French, Spanish or Portuguese) or technical background (network protocols, etc). I am happy to answer questions if needed but would prefer it if somebody else does the rewrite. So thank you for picking it up. Elinruby (talk)

I did glance over the article just now, without looking at what got changed, so this is a critique not of your edit but of the article as it stands. 1) the only regulatory authority mentioned is American? 2) this idea that farmed fish are less contaminated than wild-caught fish sounds like industry promo, and if accurate needs to be better explained and sourced. I scanned quite quickly and don’t feel I have spent enough time on it to address organization or structure. I seem to recall that a salmon farm in British Columbia waters recently lost its license, which may be worth Googling; also there was some sort of dispute about a grandfathered oyster farm off Port Reyes in California which may also be worth examining. Just suggestions. I am sure you have already considerably improved it Elinruby (talk) 07:51, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

https://www.sfgate.com/science/article/U-S-evicting-Point-Reyes-oyster-farmer-4077624.php Elinruby (talk) 08:28, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/vancouver-island-fish-farm-begins-euthanizing-1m-salmon-ahead-of-federal-phase-out-1.5322980 Elinruby (talk) 08:30, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, this article could include more info about other national organic regulations for fish/seafood. This 2015 NPR article describes certified organic mussels grown in-ocean in Canada. There has certainly been some criticism of the concept of certified organic farmed fish, which could be included if we find a good source. The Point Reyes oyster farm issues are off-topic - there were problems related to an expiring federal lease and unpermitted expansion, not anything having to do with organic standards, and though your linked article does include the word organic, the word is being used in a general way by a local resident, and doesn't suggest anything about certification.Dialectric (talk) 08:51, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your input @Elinruby: and @Dialectric:. I spent a little time looking into how this article fits into WP, as far as related subjects go, and while I didn't find anything at first, I've found Organic aquaculture which seems to be basically the same thing. It might actually warrant a merge. Opinions? Estheim (talk) 18:42, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

be bold. See above; my contribution was getting it from truly awful to pretty bad; I am not invested in the current content. The source suggestions were just recollections that surfaced from prior news consumption. I do think we should internationalize whatever coverage we wind up giving this. Bowing out of this discussion now, though I do appreciate the ping Elinruby (talk) 20:10, 23 September 2021 (UTC)