Talk:Operation Strike of the Sword

Casualties 2nd

Count the number of US marine casualties in Helmand province on Icasualty I have 21 not 22, please redo your math and stop changing my casualty section! What I have said there is the truth and not just some made up section. For the Taliban according to their religion (Islam) bury their dead very fast. This hinders an accurate body count. Please either add onto it or leave it alone do not erase like you have done many times. Please type what you think... and please re count the US Marine forces killed in the operation. There is 21 not 22.... To my knowledge there were only US Marines on the ground, supporting them were US Army but they were not called in for support at all. Date is DEC 5, 2009

First of do not leave your messages to me within the article, some administrators can consider that vandalism. Leave messages in the edit summary, that's what it's there for. Second you are not counting correctly, I counted it three times and 22 Marines are listed to have died from July 2 to August 20. If uou want I can list them for you here and than you can check it out. Third I left your number of dead Taliban as 49-62 because I agree with your summing up of the two reports from Dahaneh and the first days of the operation, however you are to much going into detail about their religion and that needs to be cut down a bit.UrukHaiLoR (talk) 01:31, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Please list them again I had counted 21 along with another 3rd party did also... And as for the religion sources I had them sourced but you deleted them and now I cannot find them. And leaving direct messages to you was the only way to communicate, this has been here for a while now.

1.Sharp, Charles S. July 2, 2009
2.Hayes, John Eric July 8, 2009
3.Hager, Roger Gary Michael July 8, 2009
4.Lembke, Matthew Ryan July 10, 2009
5.Barbozaflores, Pedro Antonio July 11, 2009
6.Hatfield, Jerome David July 11, 2009
7.Heede Jr, Michael Wayne July 13, 2009
8.Spicer, David Shane July 13, 2009
9.Lasher, Jeremy Scott July 23, 2009
10.Xiarhos, Nicholas George July 23, 2009
11.Lane, Ryan H. July 23, 2009
12.Vincent, Donald Wayne July 25, 2009
13.Stroud, Jonathan Fulton July 30, 2009
14.Posey, Gregory Alan July 30, 2009
15.Burrow, Dennis James August 7, 2009
16.Olvera, Javier August 8, 2009
17.Schimmel, Patrick Wayne August 9, 2009
18.Ferrell, Bruce Earnest August 9, 2009
19.Cahir, William John August 13, 2009
20.Bernard, Joshua Matthew August 14, 2009
21.Damas, Leopold Fred August 17, 2009
22.Benjamin, Adam Frank August 18, 2009
23.Hall, David August 31, 2009
24.Latorre, Xhacob December 8, 2009

All listed to have died in Helmand.UrukHaiLoR (talk) 02:05, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Also, I wasn't the only one who reverted you, three other editors reverted you, not just me. You have to learn the Wikipedia rules on editing if you want to continue working here.UrukHaiLoR (talk) 02:11, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

If you look at the participating units in the wikipedia section which is correct to my knowledge I looked... not all of these marines kia in the region at that time were fighting in the operation... Some were not in the operation but were killed in the region. Naming one #19s unit was not participating in the operation but was operating somewhere in Helmand province at the time... so I wish to change it to 22 US Marines killed in Helmand from july 4-aug 20... What say you? And I am sorry to convict you of changing my work but it is frustrating to just randomly see all my word deleted. I am just trying to give the right information. I began to get fristrated when I saw 1 killed then 33 killed then 102 killed, then 30 etc...

Ok, you may have a point there so I will change the number to only those that died while serving in units that participated in the operation. Except for the one marine reservist one member of the 1st Marine division died in Helmand, he was not part of Khanjar, so that makes a total of 20 dead.UrukHaiLoR (talk) 02:43, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I am glad to come to an agreement I will change the casualty section also and keep an eye out for more taliban deaths (there has to be an article out there somewhere)....another thing you seem to know what you are doing so would you be interested in teaming up and creating a Operation Cobra's Anger article on Wiki? It is a new operation by the USMC, UK, and ANA forces which started in DEC 4? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.117.178.196 (talk) 02:53, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I'll create it for you and than edit away.UrukHaiLoR (talk) 03:05, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

one last thing... I think the taliban casualties should just say at least 49-62 because if we put US claim that would mean the US went out and said we killed that many taliban when according to many articles and sources out there explains how the US govt does not come out with official enemy dead counts and mainly media and spectators give the guesses to how many were killed ya know?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.117.178.196 (talk) 03:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Best not to put anything just at least 49-62 killed, for the posibily of more killed it has been explained in the casualties section of the article. Here I started the article Operation Cobra's Anger, like I said, eddit away now.UrukHaiLoR (talk) 03:23, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

THere are a few missing casualties from 2/8 on this list. If you want i can reconcile our list(s) with what i have. (I was the 2/8 Battalion patient/casualty tracker from 15May-28Nov)gabriel (talk) 17:16, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

I added KIA 23 Lance Corporal Hall, David and KIA 24 Corporal LaTorre, Xhacob(He wasn't killed initially but died due to injuries sustained from an IED explosion on patrol. I have both the original book and his individual card if pictures need to be provided). They were the original 14 of 2/8 that got killed as mentioned in the article. Sharp, Xiarhos, Lasher, Vincent, Stroud, Posey, Burrow, Olvera, Shimmel, Ferrell, Damas, Hall, Chrobot and Latorre.

Merge

I placed a merge tag on the Operation Khanjar article and I think the info should be merged to that article due to that being the title currently being used in the media. --Kumioko (talk) 16:26, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I have been bold and made the Operation Khanjar article a redirect to this one, since this one is more complete. However, I think now I should have gone the other way because the Marines' name for the operation is Khanjar, despite that being (I presume) an Afghan phrase. Lawrence, M.J. (talk) 01:39, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Thats what I thought too and yes Khanjar means Strike of the sword.--Kumioko (talk) 01:49, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

MARSOC Participation

I've been watching the MARSOC unit appear and disappear from this article. While I'm pretty sure MARSOC is involved, I say wait until there's written confirmation. --Ouketi.ego (talk) 03:34, 05 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to contribute a description of 2d Recon's participation in the operation. Once I'm approved to do so, I'd appreciate all of your feedback. You all have done a great job with this. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TroopHistorian (talk • contribs) 15:27, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Here's my suggested edit adding 2d Recon as a participating unit. Source is firsthand knowledge.

2d Recon Participation 2d MEB's Reconnaissance Detachment, which was led by the battalion operations officer and comprised of a Recon company (reinforced), was tasked by MEB Ground Combat Element commander with two missions during Operation Khanjar. First, before the heliborne insert of 2/8 and 1/5 in Garmsir and Nawa, the Recon Detachment executed the operations military deception (MILDEC) plan. The MILDEC mission involved area reconnaissance of the eastern outskirts of Marjah in order to convince the Taliban that Marjah, rather than Nawa, was one of the operation's objectives. Second, after 2/8 and 1/5 were inserted, the Recon Detachment was tasked with reconnaissance in zone between the Nawa and Garmsir to limit Taliban freedom of movement and ability to reinforce at either objective. In both missions, the Recon Detachment conducted motorized patrols, surveillance from clandestine hides, precision fires, and raids. On July 7, one of the platoons was attached to 2/8 in support of the ongoing Garmsir offensive and a raid on the Lakari Bazaar, a Taliban logistics node.

On July 8, while conducting a patrol of the Nawa-Garmsir gap, a Recon company headquarters HMMWV stuck an IED. Company Operations Chief, Master Sergeant John Hayes and Lance Corporal Roger Hager were killed in action. Several other members of company headquarters were wounded.TroopHistorian (talk) 01:01, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Battle?

Not really sure if the section heading should be worded "battle", as it Operation Khanjar is the umbrella name. Legitimate battles would be the individual firefights occurring in the villages/towns, no? (e.g. Now Zad) Can we rename to "The Operation"? --Ouketi.ego (talk) 04:12, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Title changed to 'Military action', to fit in with previous subsection title 'Military challenges'. Richard Harvey (talk) 09:18, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Looks good. --Ouketi.ego (talk) 01:51, 06 July 2009 (UTC)

Casualties

IMO, Marines succumbing to heat exhaustion does not rate being listed in the "casualties" section.--Ouketi.ego (talk) 01:51, 06 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's referenced properly either. Better to just remove it altogether. Lawrence, M.J. (talk) 07:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

The heat injuries can kill a marine just as effectively as a 7.62 round. Granted its Non-Battle Injury, and doesn't 'rate the purple heart' but we (i'm currently IN Helmand with 2/8) still track all cas-evac'd casualties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gabriel.michaels (talk • contribs) 11:25, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the person who took that link and counted the american casualties did not take into account whether the person killed belonged to a unit involved in this specific operation, let alone if they were even killed in the same region of Afghanistan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.39.17 (talk) 17:19, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

British forces a part of this US operation?

Are British forces really part of this specific operation? They're operating in Helmand province but this does not necessarily mean they are part of "Operation Strike of the Sword". I have yet to see their inclusion as part of this operation sourced anywhere on this page.

Unless there is sourced information to back this up, the British should not be listed in the belligerents and participating units sections. 70.49.123.139 (talk) 22:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually I see now that the "See also" section specifies "Operation Panther's Claw – simultaneous British operation in southern Afghanistan". The British have a separate ongoing operation in Helmand province so, unless properly sourced information shows otherwise, it is incorrect to list them as being a part of the US "Operation Strike of the Sword". 70.49.123.139 (talk) 22:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

There was a Yahoo News photo showing British trainers with Afghan troops supporting the US Marines in either Garmsir or Nawa. That was being used as a ref, but I think it was removed. Lawrence, M.J. (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

See also here - Afghan Forces Missing From Helmand Offensive New York Times, specifically "At the meeting in Nawa, General McChrystal asked for input from the assembled officers. A British Army officer, Maj. Rob Gallimore, who leads a team training Afghan soldiers, responded bluntly: While the success of the weeklong operation had been “staggering,” he said, he was worried what would happen if the necessary complement of Afghan forces did not materialize".Lawrence, M.J. (talk) 23:47, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I just read the article you linked to. I don't think it's clear from that that the British army officer was actually taking part in Operation "Strike of the Sword". The article doesn't state that the meeting was limited to direct participants of that operation. One would think there would be constant coordination with the separate British operation in Helmand (Operation Panther's Claw) and with other operations in adjacent areas so there could be liaison officers at the meetings. The article stated that he leads a team training Afghan soldiers: some of those soldiers that his team trained may or may not have been part of the operation, and if they did, it may or may not have been with the training team being present. I think far less circumstantial evidence is needed as a source to be able to state that Britain is a participant in this specific operation. 76.65.182.150 (talk) 23:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

2/8 Resistance

It is stated that 2/8 met little to no resistance on July 2nd. This is inaccurate. Echo Company made contact immediately after landing on July 2nd resulting in the death of Lcpl Sharp and engagements that continued well into the next month. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.241.212.36 (talk) 02:44, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I second this. I was there on the second wave of the helicopters on day one. "2/8 met little to no resistance" Yes kind of, for the first two hours we hand cobras and hueys overhead circling the area until they left and when they did we started receiving fire. I might be remembering incorrectly but I think fire support was denied initially reporting troops in contact up until Sharp got killed on day one. Also we ran out of water and had to purify river canal water due to the HST drop pilots refusing to deliver because of the enemy fire they were directly receiving. We referred to day one as "D-Day Part Dos." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.142.240.222 (talk) 01:29, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2018

under the heading participating units - U.S forces - 1st Combat Engineer Battalion should be added reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Combat_Engineer_Battalion. Engineers from 1st CEB attached to 2nd LAR to provide mobility support with metal detectors to find/avoid IED's and demolition for hasty and deliberate breaching into compounds and to destroy enemy assets and contraband.

under the heading timeline - Khan Neshin district - reference the article posted by the washington post https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/14/in-the-afghan-battle-space/ and http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2009/07/20/GA2009072001658.html Cal4days (talk) 04:19, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done Please specify which text is to be replaced/expanded/amended, and reference these changes. Fish+Karate 14:04, 24 September 2018 (UTC)