Talk:Ontario Highway 409/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Starstriker7 (talk · contribs) 07:59, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I'll review this article. --Starstriker7^(Talk) 07:59, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Criterion 1

• "King's Highway 409, also known as Highway 409, colloquially as the four-oh-nine and historically as the Belfield Expressway," - This portion of the sentence has some parallelism issues. Additionally, wouldn't King's Highway 409 also be a nickname, if the official name is Ontario Highway 409?
• "industrial areas of Etobicoke centred around the highway." - Pardon my American understanding of English, but is "centred" spelled correctly?
• "Highway 409 crosses Kipling Avenue and splits into two carriageways" - Can "carriageways" be wikilinked?
• "eastbound lanes cross Highway 401 on a flyover and become that highway's collector lanes" - Can "flyover" be wikilinked?

Criterion 2

• "King's Highway 409, also known as Highway 409, colloquially as the four-oh-nine and historically as the Belfield Expressway," - Can you cite the nicknames?
• Reference 4 does not cite the posted speed limit.
• Reference 2 states that the length of the highway was 5.6 kilometers after I added up the data on the five sections of it. This means that the general infobox and exit list infobox are both incorrect in the length of the highway, to my understanding. Also, where does it discuss the private ownership of the portion of the highway closest to Pearson?
• Reference 13 only says that the estimated end of construction was September 1, 2011. The reference proper was last updated (at the time at which you archived it) on June 30, 2011, which means that there is a possibility that construction may have been delayed. Can you find a more up-to-date reference that confirms this completion date?

Criterion 3

All major aspects I've seen in other road GAs are covered. Article is well-focused.

Criterion 4

The article is written in an unbiased tone.

Criterion 5

The article's edit history suggests that it is stable.

Criterion 6

• Why is the fifth picture's caption bolded?
• Period at the end of the fourth picture's caption.

Discussion

Thank you for the review! I've responded to everything in order below. Most of the fixes I've made, but a few I have had to make do with what little data there is on this stubby and oft-ignored little highway.

And thank you for the timely response! I will get to addressing your answers right away. --Starstriker7^(Talk) 08:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Ontario Highway 409 is the standard used by the wikiproject for naming all highways. It's cleaner than Highway 409 (Ontario) and follows the conventions used throughout WP:HWY. King's Highway 409 is the official legal name of the highway. This lead sentence formatting is current used on every 400-series article, including the four that are currently GA's. I'd prefer not to reword it... but I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'parallelism issues' all the same - Could you elaborate?

I suppose that what I mean is how the phrasing of the lead sentence does not grammatically balance each name. (Sorry, I find it kind of hard to explain.) I'd suggest rephrasing it to be something like this, depending on whether or not the phonetic abbreviation is maintained: "King's Highway 409, which is known alternatively as Highway 409, colloquially as the four-oh-nine, and historically as the Belfield Expressway. --Starstriker7^(Talk) 08:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

So basically the "also known as" sets up the issue. I noticed that this is the old intro sentence I used back several years ago, and that I didn't update it to the new wording, which is: King's Highway 409, commonly referred to as Highway 409, colloquially as... Hope this makes it different. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 16:02, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I think the fix will work. :) --Starstriker7^(Talk) 16:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Centred is the correct Canadian spelling (though its spoken the same). I've also linked the two terms.

For the references, starting with the nicknames: I can cite the Belfield Expressway name, but the pronunciation of highways 401 to 409 is generally a common knowledge thing for anyone living in or around Ontario. There are some York University pamphlets that indicate it for the main highway, the four-oh-one, but there wouldn't be anything for four-oh-nine I don't think.

I still find it kind of iffy. Even though the colloquial pronunciation is a no-brainer, the fact that it isn't easily verifiable makes me doubt its necessity in the article. I don't think that much would be lost if it was removed. --Starstriker7^(Talk) 08:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

The only part I have a problem losing is the consistency with the other 13 400-series articles that all begin that way. There was some source I found from the 60s that tells the public 'Never "Four zero one, ALWAYS four-OH-one"'... I don't remember where or when I saw it but I'll dig. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 16:02, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Any luck finding anything? --Starstriker7^(Talk) 16:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

It will probably take me a while... I'm in the midst of exams and I can't remember which book I read it in at the reference library. I'm going to hidden-comment it out for now and once I find that ref I'll reintroduce it. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 17:28, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Alright. I apologize for the trouble that this is causing, but now that this is out of the way, I don't think there is anything left to discuss. I'll pass the article momentarily. --Starstriker7^(Talk) 00:16, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I added another ref to bolster that part. There's no way for me to get the bylaws that create those speed limits, but the signs on streetview are pretty clear: 60 begins.

It's alright, that should work just fine. I'd just add a note indicating that the information can indeed be found in StreetView. --Starstriker7^(Talk) 08:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Done... Noted in the title of the ref. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 16:02, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

For reference 2, I'm guessing I forgot to update the number in the infobox... the .2 km difference in the junction table is probably just updates over the 2004 table that I used to make it.

For Reference 13, unfortunately I cannot. The page was live well into October, still stating September 1, but after that the contract was taken down. I'm not sure if more snapshots will be added in the future, but its the most reliable source I have. I wouldn't mind indicating in the sentence that it was scheduled for completion September 1...

That would probably be for the best to change it to that, then, to stay true to the reference. --Starstriker7^(Talk) 08:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Done - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 16:02, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I fixed the bolding in the caption (I had copied the picture and caption from Highway 427 without switching which one was linked in the caption)... Are you saying the fourth picture needs a period? My understanding was that they should only have periods if the caption is multi-sentence.

My understanding was that captions need periods when complete sentences are formed, but do not when grammatically incomplete phrases are used. (Which, I suppose, would actually apply to most of the images in the article, not just the one I noted.) I've double-checked MOS, which confirms this (MOS:CAPTIONS). --Starstriker7^(Talk) 08:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Makes sense... I'm not quite sure if the first caption is a sentence or noun phrase though, so I left that one for now (let me know if you feel its a sentence, I'm completely on the fence) - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 16:02, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

The first picture's caption doesn't look like a complete sentence, so I wouldn't worry about it. --Starstriker7^(Talk) 16:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

-- ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 22:02, 10 December 2011 (UTC)