 | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
| |||||||||||
Disruptive editing edit
Please, stop your disruptive edita contrary the reliable sources and discuss. Jingby (talk) 12:43, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I am going to readd the state where this school was founded. Jingby (talk) 05:38, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Jingby, you are making the Ohrid School as if the school was Bulgarian and it belongs to the Bulgarians, and it was only significant to the Bulgarians. Your misplaced nationalism is offensive, irrational and irritating. The school was Slavic (like the language, people and the alphabet). The Ohrid School was not only important to the Bulgarians and their national pride, but to all Slavs.
It was founded by a Bulgarian king, and Ohrid was in the borders of the Bulgarian Empire. So what. It also lasted after the fall of the Bulgarian Empire in the 11th century, which by your logic, would mean that it was non-Bulgarian after that? If the School was Bulgarian because Ohrid was part of Bulgaria, what does that make every Bulgarian during 500 years of Turkish rule, Turks?
Please explain.
WHere is the NPOV? edit
What part here is objectionable, untrue, or a matter of opinion that needs discussing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BenFranklinPhilly (talk • contribs) 22:50, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
The deletion of the term Bulgarian in this article and its substitution with the term Macedonian is ultra-nationalistic POV edit
Throughout the Middle Ages and until the early 20th century, there was no clear formulation or expression of a distinct Macedonian ethnicity. The Slavic speaking majority in the Region of Macedonia had been referred to (both, by themselves and outsiders) as Bulgarians, and that is how they were predominantly seen since 10th,[1][2][3] up until the early 20th century.[4] It is generally acknowledged that the ethnic Macedonian identity emerged in the late 19th century or even later.[5][6][7][8][9][10] However, the existence of a discernible Macedonian national consciousness prior to the 1940s is disputed.[11][12][13][14][15] Anti-Serban and pro-Bulgarian feelings among the local population at this period prevailed.[16][17] According to some researchers, by the end of the war a tangible Macedonian national consciousness did not exist and bulgarophile sentiments still dominated in the area, but others consider that it hardly existed.[18] After 1944 Communist Bulgaria and Communist Yugoslavia began a policy of making Macedonia into the connecting link for the establishment of new Balkan Federative Republic and stimulating here a development of distinct Slav Macedonian consciousness.[19] With the proclamation of the Socialist Republic of Macedonia as part of the Yugoslav federation, the new authorities also started measures that would overcome the pro-Bulgarian feeling among parts of its population.[20] In 1969 also the first History of the Macedonian nation was published. The past was systematycally falsified to conceal the truth, that most of the well-known Macedonians had felt themselves to be Bulgarians and generations of students were tought the pseudo-history of the Macedonian nation.[21]
References and notes edit
- ^ Who are the Macedonians? Hugh Poulton, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, 2000, ISBN 1850655340, p. 19-20.
- ^ Средновековни градови и тврдини во Македонија, Иван Микулчиќ, Македонска академија на науките и уметностите — Скопје, 1996, стр. 72.
- ^ Formation of the Bulgarian nation: its development in the Middle Ages (9th-14th c.) Academician Dimitŭr Simeonov Angelov, Summary, Sofia-Press, 1978, pp. 413-415.
- ^ Center for Documentation and Information on Minorities in Europe, Southeast Europe (CEDIME-SE) - "Macedonians of Bulgaria", p. 14.
- ^ Krste Misirkov, On the Macedonian Matters (Za Makedonckite Raboti), Sofia, 1903: "And, anyway, what sort of new Macedonian nation can this be when we and our fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians?"
- ^ Sperling, James; Kay, Sean; Papacosma, S. Victor (2003). Limiting institutions?: the challenge of Eurasian security governance. Manchester, UK: Manchester University Press. p. 57. ISBN 978-0-7190-6605-4.
Macedonian nationalism Is a new phenomenon. In the early twentieth century, there was no separate Slavic Macedonian identity
- ^ Titchener, Frances B.; Moorton, Richard F. (1999). The eye expanded: life and the arts in Greco-Roman antiquity. Berkeley: University of California Press. p. 259. ISBN 978-0-520-21029-5.
On the other hand, the Macedonians are a newly emergent people in search of a past to help legitimize their precarious present as they attempt to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world dominated historically by Serbs and Bulgarians. ... The twentieth-century development of a Macedonian ethnicity, and its recent evolution into independent statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991, has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history and politics, the Macedonians, who have had no history, need one.
- ^ Kaufman, Stuart J. (2001). Modern hatreds: the symbolic politics of ethnic war. New York: Cornell University Press. p. 193. ISBN 0-8014-8736-6.
The key fact about Macedonian nationalism is that it is new: in the early twentieth century, Macedonian villagers defined their identity religiously—they were either "Bulgarian," "Serbian," or "Greek" depending on the affiliation of the village priest. ... According to the new Macedonian mythology, modern Macedonians are the direct descendants of Alexander the Great's subjects. They trace their cultural identity to the ninth-century Saints Cyril and Methodius, who converted the Slavs to Christianity and invented the first Slavic alphabet, and whose disciples maintained a centre of Christian learning in western Macedonia. A more modern national hero is Gotse Delchev, leader of the turn-of-the-century Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO), which was actually a largely pro-Bulgarian organization but is claimed as the founding Macedonian national movement.
- ^ Rae, Heather (2002). State identities and the homogenisation of peoples. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 278. ISBN 0-521-79708-X.
Despite the recent development of Macedonian identity, as Loring Danforth notes, it is no more or less artificial than any other identity. It merely has a more recent ethnogenesis - one that can therefore more easily be traced through the recent historical record.
- ^ Zielonka, Jan; Pravda, Alex (2001). Democratic consolidation in Eastern Europe. Oxford: Oxford University Press. p. 422. ISBN 978-0-19-924409-6.
Unlike the Slovene and Croatian identities, which existed independently for a long period before the emergence of SFRY Macedonian identity and language were themselves a product federal Yugoslavia, and took shape only after 1944. Again unlike Slovenia and Croatia, the very existence of a separate Macedonian identity was questioned—albeit to a different degree—by both the governments and the public of all the neighboring nations (Greece being the most intransigent)
- ^ Loring M. Danforth, The Macedonian Conflict: Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World, 1995, Princeton University Press, p.65, ISBN 0691043566
- ^ Stephen Palmer, Robert King, Yugoslav Communism and the Macedonian question,Hamden, Connecticut Archon Books, 1971, p.p.199-200
- ^ The Macedonian Question: Britain and the Southern Balkans 1939-1949, Dimitris Livanios, edition: Oxford University Press, US, 2008, ISBN 0199237689, p. 65.
- ^ The struggle for Greece, 1941-1949, Christopher Montague Woodhouse, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, 2002, ISBN 1850654921, p. 67.
- ^ Who are the Macedonians? Hugh Poulton,Hurst & Co. Publishers, 1995, ISBN 1850652384, 9781850652380, p. 101.
- ^ The struggle for Greece, 1941-1949, Christopher Montague Woodhouse, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, 2002, ISBN 1850654921, p. 67.
- ^ Who are the Macedonians? Hugh Poulton,Hurst & Co. Publishers, 1995, ISBN 1850652384, 9781850652380, p. 101.
- ^ The Macedonian conflict: ethnic nationalism in a transnational world, Loring M. Danforth, Princeton University Press, 1997, ISBN 0691043566, pp. 65-66.
- ^ Europe since 1945. Encyclopedia by Bernard Anthony Cook. ISBN 0815340583, pg. 808.[1]
- ^ {{cite book | last =Djokić | first =Dejan | title =Yugoslavism: Histories of a Failed Idea, 1918-1992 | publisher =C. Hurst & Co. Publishers | year =2003 | pages =122 .
- ^ Yugoslavia: a concise history, Leslie Benson, Palgrave Macmillan, 2001, ISBN 0333792416, p. 89.
edit war edit
Rather than blocking the disputants, I've reverted to the July version before this started and protected the article. If you are unable to work together as colleagues, then go to dispute resolution and have somebody babysit. Meanwhile, if there are non-contentious edits that need to be made, tell me here and I can add them in. — kwami (talk) 10:03, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
@Jingiby edit
Jingiby, you have been warned a number of times about misrepresenting sources. Poulton (2000) does not mention a "distinct Bulgarian ethnic consciousness" arising from the development of Old Church Slavonic literary. He says the effect of it prevented the assimilation of the Slavs and the legacy of which bolstered a national identity "far from that associated with modern nationalism". --101.112.170.166 (talk) 12:42, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
What the source says is: ...The development of a Slav literacy was crucial in preventing assimilation of the Slavs, either by cultures of the north, or by the Greek culure to the south... Thus as Crampton notes, the legacy helped the Bulgarians develop a national consciousness which, though far from that associated with modern nationalism, was strong to preserve the concept of Bulgaria and the Bulgarians as a distinct entity... This sence was cemented by the conquests of Simeon the Great (i.e. during the 9th and 10th centuries...). Hugh Poulton, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, 2000, ISBN 1-85065-534-0, pp. 19-20. Jingiby (talk)
Macedonian prof. Mikulchik has the same view: Once the Byzantine lands along the border were conquered, Simeon changed his military conception. An symbiosis was completed, between the few Asiatic Bulgars and the numerous Slavic tribes in the broad area from the Danube in the north to the Aegean Sea to the south and from the Adriatic Sea to the west, to the Black Sea to the east. They all accepted the common ethnonym "Bulgarians". Slavic language became common to all the inhabitants of that area. - Средновековни градови и тврдини во Македонија, Иван Микулчиќ (Македонска академија на науките и уметностите — Скопје, 1996) Jingiby (talk) 14:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)