Talk:North Devon Railway

Scope of article

Someone has gone to a great deal of trouble to write up the very early locomotive history of this company. I am afraid it is disproportionate to the article itself. I propose to summarise the locomotive part of this page; I hope the writer will forgive me.

I think also the company (infrastructure) ownership is too fragmented, and I think that the Exeter & Crediton text should be imported here. The E&C was important strategically, but its history (as a separate company) does not generate enough information for a separate page.Afterbrunel 16:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with these ideas. I created the content as part of a project to document the British broad gauge locomotives. I rather hoped that someone would come along and flesh out the history. Then the locomotives section would not be disproportinate with the rest of the article.

The Exeter and Crediton Railway was a separate company which deserves its separate company history - it was notable for several reasons including the novel slant on the "battle of the gauges", and the operation of its goods trains by the GWR after the LSWR took over. again there is scope for the history to be more fully documented. The two lines do need to be considered as one route, but that is why there is a Tarka Line article. Geof Sheppard 07:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Locomotives: Geof Sheppard's opinion is respected, and I hope the following remarks will be accepted as intended cosntructively.

Locomotives: The early locomotives alone -- were they Brassey's property, or at least what he leased? -- already occupy quite a lot of space; with presumably as much to follow for the later locomotive stock -- right up to the present day perhaps? -- this is a considerable amount of detail. Would a brief summary here and a detailed page specific to the locomotives, tracing their origins and later destinations, be helpful?

Routes and Owning Companies: Providing a consistent and easily understood line history is difficult -- we could provide separate pages for all the constituents of this group of railways, and some would fizzle out as they were absorbed by another company -- for example whatever happened 1923 - 1947 could be transferred to a "Southern Railway" page. But that would make it extremely difficult for the non-expert reader to follow a narrative.

The designation "The Tarka Line" is really a marketing device by First Great Western; they describe it as running from the City of Exeter to Barnstaple. There's nothing wrong with marketing devices -- after all we are comfortable with "The Atlantic Coast Express" but it seems to me to be a quite separate issue from the history of this bundle of routes and the companies that built them and operated them. To try to do both (history and also description of present day services and scenery) on one page would lead to some difficult contortions (and would further submerge the E&C, for example). There are some far more difficult cases, of course; e.g. the "Heart of Wessex Line".

Afterbrunel 21:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I have done another pass through of the locomotives section to reduce the amount of white space. Please have a read through and tidy up if neccessary.

I think we still have a difference of opinon as to whether the article is about a railway or a line. the introductory remarks suggest the former and that is how I have structured my contributuons. I cannot see an article on the railway company as complete without coverage of the locomotives which were rather notable in their origin. (BTW - yes, Brassey did buy them. I think he sold them to the LSWR but there is a suggestion that he used at least one in his later engineering contracts on other lines)

The problem now lies with how far we develop the detail of the article; at some point it becomes the Tarka Line. This name actually stems from the Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership and has now a well recognised name in its own right, it is no longer just some marketing hype. Overall I am happy with the coverage of the "extended" lines. If someone should develop individual articles for these then this article can be easily linked to them. The bits about developing the line under the later owners are perfectly appropriate as it is part of the story that links the North Devon Railway with the Tarka Line as it exists today.

However I do not think that a description of the later locmotives that worked the line is appropriate; how would this be different and notable from articles on LSWR, SR, and BR(SR) motive power? I could, just, envisage an article on the locomotives and operation of the "Withered Arm" lines west of Exeter, but only just! I think we have just about gone as far as we can (or perhaps a little too far) without losing the original concept of one about the North Devon Railway (Company) Geof Sheppard 13:19, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Geoff. Agreeing with you, the difficulty about "are we discussing a railway or a line?" is a tricky one. But I agree this is really about a railway company and its successors. Many of the currently open lines have their own page describing present-day operation and I believe that the two can co-exist. (Consider for example the "Southampton & Dorchester Railway" and the "South-western main line"; much of the original Southampton & Dorchester was closed -- the Ringwood line -- and much of the present-day route was never part of the Soton & Dorchester. This dilemma arises again and again, and there seems to be no perfect answer.

I am making a couple of editing changes now, but -- as you suggest -- not extending this article's scope further. Afterbrunel 09:34, 16 September 2007 (UTC)