Talk:Nature writing

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This article is all too typically Americo-centric. Is there no nature-writing outside America? What about Lamarck? Darwin?

I agree that there is SO much more to be written on this topic. By all means please add, edit, delete, whatever. I thought that was the whole point of this elaborate Wikipedian exercise! Tea&magpies 03:42, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

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What is "contemporary" defined as, for the purposes of the "List of contemporary American nature writers"? Still living? Born in the 20th century? Should this be spelled out, to avoid future confusion or POV conflicts? (Unless I'm just unfamiliar with an objective standard for what "contemporary" means, which could be the case...) --Ds13 04:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)\

I had the same question. I would consider Edward Abbey "contemporary", but presumably he is not listed because he is not living.

I was thinking in terms of folks currently working in the genre, but I have no particular investment in the word or even the list itself. I think ultimately a more comprehensive list organized by chronology, subgenre, or whatever would be the ideal. Tea&magpies 00:17, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Link to Category

Wasn't sure (and couldn't find out) how to link to a category in order to expand the world-view of this article. Feel free to correct if I've done it wrong. Tony Holkham (talk) 17:36, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Seeking consensus on inclusion of writers' names

A name was included in the list of UK writers which I undid as the writer did not have their own article. The write was re-added by the same editor. Is there a guideline or consensus on whether non-notable writers should be listed (the editor chose not to discuss the inclusion, but re-inserted the writer)?...Tony Holkham (talk) 12:56, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Tony.

You deleted my edit about Ann Palmer on the basis she hasn't got a Wikipedia entry. I did work up a page on her about two months ago and left it as a draft, because (a) I had to go away (hip revision) and (b) needed to look up some references. Now I'm back I find (a) I've lost my list of user names and passwords and (b)therefore can't find the draft to work it up for approval and final posting.

Secondly, it seems the qualification to get onto the Nature Writing page seems a little harsh - apart from her two published books Ann Palmer has won and been placed in various nature writing poetry and prose competitions, both within the UK and the States.

If you could find my original draft for me (or tell me my original User name and password) that would be really ehlpful, as it wil lsave me a great deal of work to work up the material again. Thank you for your time. Look forward to hearing.

Peter LyonsPlyonsgress. (talk) 15:46, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Peter. It's not a qualification, just my opinion that red links (while useful to help suggest articles for creation) can spoil an article that's supposed to be helpful to researchers. It's a bit of a contradiction to juggle with. I left your second edit because I found the sandbox in which you (I presumed) were creating an article. The page you're looking for is User:Shortofalength/sandbox. You'll need a few independent inline citations to verify what you want to write about her - the Heijira reference is a dead link - or the article won't have a long existence. My personal view is that she is notable, but the article ought to be under her real name, rather than one of her pseudonyms. You'll need to get it up and running before someone else deletes the name from Nature writing.

Hope you don't mind if I also point out that (a) it's helpful to indent successive responses in Talk sections with increasing numbers of colons so the discussion can be followed easily and (b) you should hardly ever mark edits as minor (see WP:MINOR).

Let me know if you need any help with the article before creating it - getting to grips with how Wkipedia works is a long process but worth it in the end. Good luck!....Tony Holkham (talk) 16:11, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

There has been a useful discussion on Village Pump "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_114#.22Notable_residents.22" now archived, which can be found by searching for Notable residents in the archive. Taking the view that people on lists should be sourced, I intend to remove Gaia Dance/Ann Palmer shortly.SovalValtos (talk) 09:01, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Agree. Shortofalength has not advanced the planned article since May. Tony Holkham (talk) 12:22, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Unsourced name now removed.SovalValtos (talk) 12:28, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Lists too long?

As this article is about nature writing rather than nature writers, I propose removing the lists of writers (which are getting longer) and creating separate lists where they don't already exist. I'll leave it for a couple of days in case anyone has any comments. Tony Holkham (talk) 11:41, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree the page should stick to the point. I am not quite sure what is meant by "creating separate lists where they don't already exist". Do you mean a new page containing the lists, perhaps List of Nature Writers or something else? It would be a shame to lose the lists altogether. An interim solution might be to collapse the lists in place on this page. I am sure there must be a convention for dealing with situations such as this, but I do not know what they are.

Having read the page for the first time, what really jumps out is that there is nothing from the 17th century or earlier; only modern writing. How about the Romans or Chinese?SovalValtos (talk) 19:35, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

SovalValtos (talk) 19:40, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

I've removed the list of American writers and referred to the category. The same needs to be done for other lists in this article. Working on it. The article itself needs some work.

Agree also that there needs to be some historical perspective on the subject of the article. Tony Holkham (talk) 15:36, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Criticism and counter-criticism

Steven Poole criticises nature writing as whimsy and borgeois escapism here and Richard Mabey refutes it here and both articles contain historical and topical references that are worth examining to make this article better. There is also this article referring to the early days of nature writing. George Monbiot could also be mentioned in this context. Just thought I'd log these so they don't get lost. I haven't, however, found much about nature writing earlier than the 18th century. Tony Holkham (talk) 16:09, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

I wonder if the last section could possibly be changed to be 'modern British nature writing' or similar. There were many great nature writers in the 20th century - including Gavin Maxwell and Henry Williamson. It seems a pity to leave them out. Some nature writing can surely be seen as a reaction to the Industrial Revolution, and later as s reaction to WW1. Just a thought. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:34F0:C300:21C:B3FF:FEC6:12F7 (talk) 08:41, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Page Evaluation (Feb 2023)

I think this article could talk more about nature writing in places in the world other than Britain and America. It seems ethnocentric in that regard. The structure of the page in regards to the lead section and subsequent sections are good. Source 8 no longer works as intended.

1. "Thomas Bewick: the complete illustrative work, by Nigel Tattersfield - British Birds".

The latest information is from 2018, which is now 6 years ago, so newer examples of nature writing should probably be added. The sources seem diverse and unbiased enough though. HabitsofEelz (talk) 01:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

HabitsofEelz I agree, it needs updating, and expanding geographically. Let's see if we can find sources, though, which may be difficult. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:01, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

HabitsofEelz yes, a wider range and newer but not at the expense of falling into a WP:Recentism trap.SovalValtos (talk) 12:23, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: BIOL 412 HONORS

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 February 2024 and 3 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): HabitsofEelz (article contribs). Peer reviewers: As2460, Eliseforget, Cara.begley.

— Assignment last updated by Cara.begley (talk) 17:40, 10 March 2024 (UTC)