Talk:National Animal Identification System

Outdated information as of Nov 22, 2006 when USDA proposed updated policy guidance.

Dixxie 22:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)dixxie

Pro-NAIS Bias

This article is blatently POV. Amazingly the anti-NAIS position is the briefest section of them all and labled concerns. This misrepresents the huge grass roots movement against it, the millions of farmers and traditionalists who are outraged by this and the substanitive debate going on and mostly ignored by both the government and the media. Anti-NAIS groups and indivduals are asking very important questions that are being neglected. They are pointing out potential problems with the system that are not being addressed.

As it stands this article is biased and makes unverifyable truth claims by quoteing only one side of the debate. This is proved by the fact that nearly every other sentence is provided with a citation from the USDA website. It is a fact that the USDA claims these benifits about their proposed NAIS and it is a fact that the program is taking shape much the same way they are describing it, but it is not verified that NAIS will make our nations foods safer. This is an unverified POV. To make this article conform to NPOV it needs to acuratly protray both sides of the debate.

--Rclose 19:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree -- I am planning to work to bring some balance to the article. Jrtayloriv (talk) 21:56, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I wrote the initial version at the beginning of year, not especially well I would expect, but I wrote it to get something out there and let people see, quoting from their own website, just how unreasonable NAIS is... Maybe I haven't paid close enough attention to all the edits since then; I've popped in occasionally and gone through the edit history, but I must have missed where the current article claimes that NAIS will make the food supply safer...

BTW, the citations from the USDA are important. They are the government organization implementing this program, and I wanted to ensure that people reading this would see that the facts on how the program will be run are taken directly from them, not from somewhere they might dismiss as a "crank" website.

Also, I'll add I was glad to see your addition on depopulation - very true and it wasn't something I thought to mention. I need to see if I can pull a USDA document that comes out and actually says that.

SA horses 20:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Looks like the concerns section has been beefed up (no pun intended) considerably since the first comment, I took the liberty of organizing through subheaders and added some data to the financial concerns section, anyone feel up to cleaning up/source the other sections a bit? Rruitenberg (talk) 07:26, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Seems someone has gone through the article with a strong anti-NAIS bias and added lots of stuff without sourcing, is it really not possible to keep it just kind of neutral? Totally unsubstansiated figure on the average herd size of `about 15'... Just a quick search on the Web and I find the Nebraska Beef Council claiming the average size of the U.S. beef herd is 43 http://www.nebeef.org/state_industry_facts.asp and UMass has the average size of the U.S. dairy herd at 128 http://www.umass.edu/agcenter/census/dairy-herd%20sizes.html I tried to add some neutral info in a previous edit (for example on the cost) and I can't really be bothered to weed out all the non-NPOV crap. Sigh. Rruitenberg (talk) 16:40, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Kinda funny that people think this is pro-NAIS cause it is totally anti. Look some info up people, like the national beef and cow audits. some FACTUAL info for someone that is interested. 32% of the cowherds in the US have 1-9 head, 21% have 10-19, 26% have 20-49, 11% have 50-99, only .7% of herds in teh US have moer than 500 head. That .7% only make up 17% of the cow population in the entire US. In the event of an outbreak such as Mad Cow, you might remember, hundreds of thousands of cows are killed and disposed of since the exact path of the source cannot be traced. This doesnt hurt the major producers near as much as it does the small guys. They get their entire heard wipped out. Small producers can register their whole herd if they are moved together and yes no small producers are selling their cows overseas, BUT, that not how the beef industry works. there is a specific order that is followed. cow/calf, stocker, feeder, packer, market. everyone sells down the line except for a minority that sell to their neighbors or locally. The overseas market is a huge payout for EVERYONE not just the big producers. Prices work their way down and everyone benifits from higher demand. You cant have a high demand if people dont trust your product. The list goes on but i dont have time to edit this whole thing. These are just some things to think about from a neutral standpoint. basic economics and numbers are neutral last time i checked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.78.104.7 (talk) 00:43, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Animals

Are animals such as cats, dogs and hamsters required to be tagged and identified? That sounds like it would be going way over the limit...Although the whole program itself is already going over the limit. Scorpionman 03:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Household pets are not included according to the USDA, added in overview section. Rruitenberg (talk) 07:22, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Voluntary

Oh yes... "Voluntary at the State level." I wonder just how "voluntary" all those little FFA & 4H kids in the midwest (that were **required** to get a premis ID number to participate) think it is? Or, how about Prop 2 that's on the ballot in California? Who thinks that California dept of Ag is actually going to keep track of all those animals & prem's themselves? Don't y'll think they'll just roll that into NAIS? Calif's Prop2 is just a way to make NAIS mandatory in California. But, it's being sugar coated to say that it's to protect the little chickies! Oh yes... it sure if "Voluntary"! Allmuxedup (talk) 19:12, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Current program is voluntary as can be seen in the USDA pages. Please do not delete voluntary in the opening again. The program was not originally proposed that was and it is important to make it clear up front that that is no longer the case. Bcostley 04:58, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Voluntary? Oh yes. NAIS is quite voluntary. Unless, that is, you consider being given a premise id without your knowledge through data mining voluntary. Or, that you can't show at a fair without a premise id voluntary.

And how about using the kids to push this program. Telling some of the groups like FFA that they will get money for each farm they sign up, or a 4H kid that if they want to participate in a show, they must sign up.

Oh yes...it is voluntary. It is the government's definition of voulntary, not the real world's.

Maybe you need to check Webster's. And, while you're at it, be honest about this program. Homesteadtraders 23:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

If you have citations for all that please feel free to add to the article. Bcostley 01:56, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Other countries

Some vandalism ongoing here, why? Australia still operates its National Livestock Identification System as far as I can tell from http://www.mla.com.au/TopicHierarchy/IndustryPrograms/NationalLivestockIdentificationSystem/default.htm Will restore or repair unless someone can show me the source showing the program has indeed been dismantled, Australian government Web sites shows it's still in operation. Rruitenberg (talk) 19:05, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok expanded the Other countries segment with sourced info. Other countries including Uruguay also have traceability systems, not sure more need to be mentioned here? Rruitenberg (talk) 19:56, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

NAIS is dead

NAIS has been withdrawn by USDA and is to be replaced with something else. Someone might wish to write a new article. I can't do it, because of my personal and seething anti-NAIS POV.

Here's the scoop...

http://www.usda.gov/nais now redirects to http://www.aphis.usda.gov/traceability/

http://www.usda.gov/nais/840 (the instructions on how to buy mandated 840 devices for your animals) is now a 404.

Lots more at http://nonais.org/

In other words NAIS is dead, and USDA has swept under the carpet all the evidence that they once touted it. These things do not die easily. Zombies next? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Snezzy (talk • contribs) 08:50, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

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