Talk:Mutant Turtles: Superman Legend
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I couldn't just do that, because I kept getting error message saying there was something in the name it couldn't except. So I kept adjusting the title, but it came up the same error message. I guess it's because I'm using the beta version of the new Wikipedia. Sarujo (talk) 23:02, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
- The problem is that the intended target page has more history than just the creation of the redirect. That would need to be deleted first, which an administrator could do.
- But I'm not convinced about the proposed new title. For one thing, it doesn't contain the full "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", and it's half translated, half not, which is why I believe it fails WP:USEENGLISH.
- Also, the current title is the common English name, just as War and Peace is at the English ttle, not the Russian one. (Yes, I just compared this OVA to War and Peace.) It may be an inaccurate translation of the Japanese, but it would be hardly the first time that a film has differing titles in differing languages, and readers should be able to find the article at the title that is most commonly used (the purpose of WP:COMMONNAME.oknazevad (talk) 03:08, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
- Use English only apples to official English titles of a property. And since the OAV has no official English title as it was never released outside of Japan. And no, War and Peace has no value here in this discussion as it has be release here in English as War and Piece, so "Use English" only applies to such titles. The more appropriate comparison would be Scramble City, another OAV based on an American property, in that case - The Transformers. The current title for that article is Transformers: Scramble City not because it commonly use in English language, but because it's one of a couple of official titles use which happens to use English. No "Use English" only apples when the subject has an alternate title in the English language, and, at this moment, the OAV has none. The title that currently uses is a fan term which goes against the guidelines on fancruft. It would be much different if the title for this two story feature did use the full Teenage Mutant in - but it didn't. Also there are also guideline that dictate the we use correct title, and one featured is not. The same goes for "Common Name", which is the Officially licensed English title by the copyright holders. Also the translation itself is incorrect, Chōjin Densetsu Hen does not come out as "Legend of the Supermutants". A more correct translation would be more like "Superman Legend Compilation". The fact that it's apart of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise is merely a formality. The feature was not produce in the US and shipped to Japan. No, the feature was produced by Toei Animation from a commission by the TV Tokyo the network that broadcasted the Mutant Turtles incarnation. But if you want the title to feature the official common name, then we need to go with what the copyright holders are currently using which is, "Mutant Turtles: Superman Legend" as seen here on the official website. It's safe to say that when an official website starts addressing something name a particular way, then everything else should reflect their decision. Sarujo (talk) 09:08, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
- Ah, I was unaware of that semi-official endorsement of the title.
- I say semi because the terms of the old licensing deal led to a lot of stuff being produced with little knowledge of the actual copyright holdes, Eastman and Laird. I believe these OVA are part of that. But, even if ex post facto, after Laird gained full control of the Turtles, as ninjaturtles.com was launched, that does constitute an acknowledgment of that as the title, and so I support the move.
- Use English only apples to official English titles of a property. And since the OAV has no official English title as it was never released outside of Japan. And no, War and Peace has no value here in this discussion as it has be release here in English as War and Piece, so "Use English" only applies to such titles. The more appropriate comparison would be Scramble City, another OAV based on an American property, in that case - The Transformers. The current title for that article is Transformers: Scramble City not because it commonly use in English language, but because it's one of a couple of official titles use which happens to use English. No "Use English" only apples when the subject has an alternate title in the English language, and, at this moment, the OAV has none. The title that currently uses is a fan term which goes against the guidelines on fancruft. It would be much different if the title for this two story feature did use the full Teenage Mutant in - but it didn't. Also there are also guideline that dictate the we use correct title, and one featured is not. The same goes for "Common Name", which is the Officially licensed English title by the copyright holders. Also the translation itself is incorrect, Chōjin Densetsu Hen does not come out as "Legend of the Supermutants". A more correct translation would be more like "Superman Legend Compilation". The fact that it's apart of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise is merely a formality. The feature was not produce in the US and shipped to Japan. No, the feature was produced by Toei Animation from a commission by the TV Tokyo the network that broadcasted the Mutant Turtles incarnation. But if you want the title to feature the official common name, then we need to go with what the copyright holders are currently using which is, "Mutant Turtles: Superman Legend" as seen here on the official website. It's safe to say that when an official website starts addressing something name a particular way, then everything else should reflect their decision. Sarujo (talk) 09:08, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
- I am somewhat mollified that it is movig away from the common English title (which is more than just a fan name, but the name which it has ciculated amongst tape traders for over a decade, giving it a greater importance) by the fact that a redirect from that title will still exist. We should, for th sake of completeness mention in the lead that it is commonly called Legend of the Supermutants in English. oknazevad (talk) 21:18, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
- Anytime a person or persons comes up with a title, it is a a fan term. Since when does a bunch of nobody traders get to become authorities over the the Ninja Turtle property? The fact that it's been used on a bunch of tape is irrelevant here. Most tapes in trades are unlicensed bootleg recorded copies where their quality are poor. They were never licensed by Shogakukan or the North American home video publishers at the time, FHE. Also completeness does not apply when the title is incorrect. Sarujo (talk) 01:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
- A surprisingly heated discussion, considering you both agree on all the main points. The only thing you seem to disagree on is a mention of the Legend of the Supermutants title, which is easily solved by providing a reliable source. Translations aren't considered to be original research, but in this case the source would also be backing up the commonly used bit. Doceirias (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and changed the title to the more accurate translation and the one provided by the official website. If anybody still wants to argue this then go ahead. Sarujo (talk) 16:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
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