Talk:Muse Hassan Sheikh Sayid Abdulle

Lede

@Middayexpress: Generally, it makes sense to list a person's current occupation first, followed by their important historical positions. "Abdulle ... is a senior military figure and politician..." is not accurate, since he retired from the military and is also apparently no longer an MP. If you think people really need something more than "ambassador to Italy" to describe what he "is", the following seems clean and accurate:

...also known as Musa Hassan Abdulle, is a Somali diplomat and Somalia's ambassador to Italy. He was formerly a brigadier general in the Somali National Army, the acting president of Somalia, and interim speaker of the Federal Parliament.

What's your issue with this wording? It's simple, clear, and accurate. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 11:42, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

His various professions should probably be mentioned first, followed by a chronological listing of the main positions he has held. So something like: "...Musa Hassan Abdulle, is a Somali diplomat, former politician and senior military figure. He was previously a brigadier general in the Somali National Army, and also served as the acting President of Somalia and interim Speaker of the Federal Parliament. Abdulle is presently Somalia's Ambassador to Italy." Also, per WP:JOBTITLES, President of Somalia, Speaker of the Federal Parliament and Ambassador to Italy should all be capitalized since they are standard office names i.e. proper nouns. Middayexpress (talk) 13:48, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

The first sentence is ambiguous as to whether former describes senior military figure (it should). This could be clarified with:

"is a Somali diplomat, former politician and former senior military figure" though I would just leave out the last two, since the following sentences about being a general and MP make it clear those were his occupations. This is how I had it at first – without the occupations.

Current jobs are usually listed first. See John Kerry, Julissa Reynoso, Matthew Barzun, Colin Powell, James B. Cunningham, Robert Stephen Ford, etc. (some are better than others, IMO, but they all have the current job posting in the lede sentence). After the first sentence, there seems to be variation based on natural flow. With some, it's useful to show progression, while, with others, the more recent are listed first as being more important.

As far as capitalization, I read WP:JOBTITLES to say that "Ambassador Abdulle" is correct, as is "Abdulle is the ambassador to Italy". However, the third bullet does give me pause, since it says "King of France", but the first sentence of the rule includes "king" as a common noun that is not cap'd. I suppose it says that, if the exact legal title is "Ambassador of Somalia to the Italian Republic", then that exact phrase is capitalized, but variations like "Abdulle was appointed ambassador to Italy" are not. Additionally, "former acting president", but "former Acting President of Somalia" and certainly "former Acting President Abdulle"? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 23:11, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

There seems to be no standard as to whether the first position held goes first or last; both are chronological, but in different orders (e.g. Dai Xianglong, Walt Minnick, Alex Sanders). However, since they are standard office names/proper nouns, President of Somalia, Speaker of the Federal Parliament and Ambassador to Italy would indeed be capitalized when we say "Abdulle was the...". Common noun usage, on the other hand, would be in lower case (e.g. "Somalian ambassador"). Middayexpress (talk) 14:06, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

References

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