Talk:Mrs Howard Paul

Her birthdate

"Mrs Howard Paul, late Miss Featherstone, was born on April 1st 1833—so her husband informed us—and at an early age was disciplined in the science of music under eminent teachers." Quoted from an undated scan from a profile in the London Journal found here. MartinPoulter (talk) 15:39, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. This is a subscription service, apparently, and I cannot see the scan you refer to. Does it say who was the author, or does it reveal what page of the journal it is from? Is there any other information about the source? -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:41, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

I have access, but the site gives nothing very useful by way of publishing data. It tells you the artist (Sargent, Francisco) and the engraver or lithographer (Hartshorn, E) but nothing about date or publishing details of source. Tim riley talk 20:43, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Trying to narrow down the date, it was after September 1857, when her Parisian venture referred to in the cutting is mentioned in another archive source as already having occurred. (Details to hand if wanted.) That clashes rather with the statement in the cutting that she made her London debut in The Beggar's Opera "about two years ago" – that debut, according to the ODNB was March 1853. (To complicate matters further, the ODNB is wrong that this was her London debut: the press archives show that she sang at the Strand Theatre in January of that year in another piece, but that is not to the present point.) I think the best we can say at present is that the cutting is from The London Journal circa 1857, and that it is accessed online at the above URL. But I'll rummage further in the archives tomorrow, I hope, and report back. – Tim riley talk 21:39, 15 April 2015 (UTC) Actually, my earlier remark about the date is nonsense. I'm too dozy, and will return to the matter in the morning.

Good start. We await your further advice. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:02, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

I think I've sorted the various dates out now, and have redrawn and added accordingly. The statement that she was born "Hill" is cited to a dead link to what was almost certainly not a WP:RS – one of those family genealogy sites one runs across all over the place. I've blitzed it. If any good source can be found for the statement we can always put it back again. I've finished down to the end of the second para of "Early life and career". I'll resume rummaging for her later career at some point. Meanwhile over to you. See what you think of the way I've cited the London Journal profile. Tim riley talk 11:22, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

I put the birthplace and birthname info back in, citing the Frederic Boase book. They are also confirmed by the excellent "Who Was Who" site. The Pascoe book also confirms the birthplace. If you can find a date and page number for the London Journal profile, that would be super. I added some material, but I think there is much more to add about the roles she played at the peak of her career. I also think that she probably premiered some songs that became popular, but I don't know which ones. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:35, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Death date

The Boase book says that she died on 6 June 1879, rather than 6 May. So do the Pascoe book and the Who Was Who site. Tim riley, if you can check The Era of 15 June 1879 (p. 12), it may clear this up. I think we may originally have gotten the wrong date from here. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:44, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

6 June is correct. The old DNB article was a shoddy affair. The article purportedly cited in it from The Era on 15 May 1879 does not exist, and the right date is 15 June; we have ourselves cited it in the WP article. To the credit of the reviser, the ODNB rehash of the DNB article corrects both those errors, though not the one about her debut role and date. Tim riley talk 07:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)