Talk:Miles Morales

Scorn Regarding Race

I feel it's inaccurate to say the new Miles Morales character causes controversy solely on race alone. I saw the entry and added an edit about how he wasn't an established character that mostly led to people's disdain, and someone quickly changed it back to racism. I bolded it for discussion and someone unbolded it. I'm abiding by the rules, so i only ask that others do the same. If you read through the IGN Comic Boards and other forums on the internet, there are scores of black and latino people (myself included) that echo the same sentiment as I. Niyemortal (talk) 04:44, 11 August 2011 (UTC)Niyemortal

I'm the one who un-bolded it, not because I don't think we should discuss it, but because there didn't appear to be a reason for the bolding within the article itself. The talk page is the right place for discussions like this. So kudos on bringing it here. :) ... Moving on to the subject, I do think we can say that the primary source of the controversy was the character's race, and the perceived political motivations for doing so. Spider-Man and numerous other characters have been "killed" (temporarily) and replaced before, by people of the same race, and in the primary Marvel Universe no less, with little or no public controversy. That being said, if you can find a way to word it effectively, and source it properly, be bold! Evanh2008, Super Genius Who am I? You can talk to me... 23:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

That's a lie. The only time Spider-Man was truly replaced was in the 90's during the Clone Saga storyline, and the outrage back then was even worse than it is now. While race is a element fueling the controversy, this would still exist regardless of whether the new Spider-Man was black or not. - ESE150 (talk) 15:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)w

Gay or no?

Will the new character be gay? I am hearing that he will. Could someone elaborate who knows more about it? I think he is a wonderfully diverse character either way, but it would certainly be historic for such a mainstream character to be homosexual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glendale1 (talk • contribs) 11:54, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Him being gay was a "joke" started by Glenn Beck. It has absolutley no basis in reality. Notthegoatseguy (talk) 01:12, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

I haven't heard of Beck having anything to do with it. To my understanding, it comes from something the artist said in an interview, that one day multiracial characters and characters of other backgrounds (gay, minority, whatever) will be commonplace. That's what Newsarama tells me, anyway. Evanh2008, Super Genius Who am I? You can talk to me... 01:18, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Sarah Pachelli, the artist, said "Maybe sooner or later a black or gay — or both — hero will be considered something absolutely normal." Some news sources, such as The Daily Mail, took this to mean (I'll just quote their article...) "But another surprise could be in the pipeline after his creators said that in the future they would not rule out making him gay." with the headline of "Marvel Comics reveals the new Spider Man is black - and he could be gay in the future". 66.168.67.155 (talk) 21:32, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

No he will not be Kohcohf (talk) 08:53, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Miguel O'Hara

While Miguel was half Latino, he was not Half Irish. His real father was Tyler Stone, not the man whose last name he took. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.203.69.29 (talk) 19:35, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Subject/verb

"Miles Morales is a fictional comic book superhero published by Marvel Comics."

How about "a fictional superhero in a comic book published by Marvel Comics?" It's the book that's published, not the superhero. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.8.102 (talk) 23:12, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I think you have a good point. I looked at the articles for Spider-Man and Batman and will change the header to match those.--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:47, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Okay, is the current version better? It's not exactly what you described but it flows better IMO than the previous version.--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:50, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Andrew Garfield reference

Andrew Garfield made a reference how he would like to see the next Spider-Man actor be a Black/Hispanic actor. Would this be notable/reliable (being that he didn't mention Miles by name) enough to mention in the article?--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:26, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I do seem to remember that a while back...it is true but I am not sure I remember that's a reference of him or not. Where is the source that you saw it from? Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 19:54, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Here are two sources [1]. [2] He didn't mention Miles by name so I guess it might fall under WP:OR but at the same time the connection has been brought up by other sources, so maybe we could say "leading some reporters to believe that he was referring to Miles Morales" or something similar.--CyberGhostface (talk) 20:23, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

That last suggestion could possible work. It's at leat a try. I am also curious have you thought of nominating this as a good article? Because it is holding up pretty nicely when compared to other fictional character articles. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 20:30, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a look and see if it fits the requirements. Thanks.--CyberGhostface (talk) 20:46, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

If neither Garfield nor a secondary source reference Miles Morales in relation to Garfield's quote, then this article is not the place to add it. Nightscream (talk) 20:43, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

A few secondary sources, including the ones linked, have referenced MIles in conjunction with Garfield's comments.--CyberGhostface (talk) 20:46, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

The closest thing that seems to come close as to not fitting that requirements for GA is that Morales behind his mask image might not be acceptable for a fair use rational. Personally I don't have a problem with it but you might want to know a real reviewer's opinion on that. Even still you could always try to find a good commentary for a image to make it acceptable. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 23:34, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

..and also the lead might need summarizing per WP:lead but that is always the easiest part.Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 23:37, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Miles Morales and the USM cartoon

The show really has nothing in common with the Ultimate comics and the connection is really in name only. It's basically just Spider-Man teaming up with other heroes and there's nothing based off anything Bendis wrote. It doesn't even take place in the Ultimate Universe as the various characters are based on their 616 counterparts (except for Nick Fury who is the Samuel L Jackson version). Knowing that, is the bit about Miles Morales not being in the cartoon really relevant to the article? It would be like saying "He's not the lead in The Amazing Spider-Man movie despite the movie drawing inspiration from the Ultimate comics".--CyberGhostface (talk) 18:12, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

If it's not in the body of the article, it should not be mentioned in the lead of the article. It also does seem a little irrelevant. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 19:06, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd think the passage clarifies to readers that the topic of the Morales article has nothing to do with the topic of the cartoon article, as they both have the same name. This way the uninitiated who may come across the article(s) will understand that the two have little to do with one another. Nightscream (talk) 15:47, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Still doesn't belong in the lead if the body of the article doesn't state it. It may need to move per WP:Lead whether it stays or goes. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 16:16, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

At the very least I don't think "despite appearing in the comics, he's not..." as that implies that he should be in the show.--CyberGhostface (talk) 17:54, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Of course the difference between the Miles Morales in the comics and the Miles Morales in Ultimate Spider-Man is that it's his father Jefferson Davis that is dead and not Rio Morales. Plus, Miles Morales operated as Kid Arachnid when he crossed over into Spider-Man's reality unlike in the comics where Miles Morales still operated as Spider-Man even when the real Spider-Man was away. --Rtkat3 (talk) 15:12, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Citation needed for "Lou Dobbs expressed outrage"

The statement "Radio host and conservative pundit Lou Dobbs expressed outrage over the original Spider-Man being replaced by the new biracial hero." basically implies that Lou Dobbs is a racist who objected only to Miles Morales' race. That's a very serious accusation. Either a citation with quotes should be added that backs this up or this line should be removed from the article entirely. Burnsbert (talk) 14:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

No, it just relates what he said. It doesn't "imply" anything. Quotes are certainly not a bad idea, but they are not required, and wholesale removal of both that passage and the citation that supported it, simply because it did not contain an exact quote, as you indicated when you blanked that passage, was not justified. I have restored it. Nightscream (talk) 01:47, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Lede needs edit.

The sentence:"The character possesses powers similar to those of the original Spider-Man, which were derived from the bite of a spider genetically engineered by Spider-Man's nemesis Norman Osborn in an attempt to duplicate those abilities." is vague and irrelevant. It is about Peter Parker's power's origin, and needs to be about Morales'. There is no reason I should have to dig into the article to find out that Morales was bitten by a genetically modifed spider conferring powers similar to Parker's, augmented by camoulage and "stun" capabilities. Needs to be rewritten and kept on subject (which is the Morales character). I also note there seems to be a huge argument about his race, but he has two (if one wants to be PC and claim "Latino" is a race). It would be helpful to learn what the racial breakdown of readers of this Comic Book character is; I don't suppose Marvel is willing to say? A fairly good estimate is probably the demographics of the relevant age group, which IS available. Why not include it? As a WASP, I find the kerfluffle silly. Africa should surpass Asia in population in the next 50 years or so, whether you just start using a different ink composition on Peter (there's no reason, afaics, that Peter must be "white" or European) or introduce a "new and improved version", as done here, a profit-oriented interprize has to keep its characters in tune with the readers it is courting. (Which isn't the 35 year old living in Mom's basement). Speaking of the race issue, its hard for me to believe no one has commented on his camouflage ability in terms of black's invisibility in mainstream America...I'll also note that this article claims the stun takes 2-4 seconds and equates it to a kick in the balls. LOL. Really? 2 seconds? Written by someone who is female or castrated (or clueless). It doesn't take 2 seconds for a 'fetal response' to such an injury. I bring it up because it is silly, and inaccurate and of doubtful use as an explanation,unless his stun immobilizes via pain? In which case, anyone on adrenaline will be pretty much immune...Spiders are too small, in general, to generate a significant electrical charge, but whatever...none of this stuff is based on anything like real physics.173.189.72.165 (talk) 16:02, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

The passage on the powers is neither vague nor irrelevant. Since Miles' version of Spider-Man is a derivative of Peter Parker's, and since his powers were derived from an attempt by Norman Osborn to duplicate Parker's powers, mentioning the original is entirely relevant to Miles' origin story, and does not mitigate the fact that the article is about Miles, any more than an article on Aristotle fails to restrict itself to that subject by mentioning that he was taught by Plato.

Nor is not "vague", since the passage is perfectly clear in meaning. Since the Lead section is a summary of the article's most salient information, and per WP:MOSLEAD, it is written in more general terms than the article body. Greater detail on the powers is given in the Infobox and the section on Powers. The level of detail in those sections is not appropriate for the Lead.

As for most of the rest of your suggestions, we are limited by the information that we can find in reliable, published, secondary sources. I hadn't come across any sources on the racial breakdown of readers of Miles' stories, or interpretations of his camouflage ability, but if you or anyone else knows of any, I'm all for adding that material.

The article does not claim that the stun takes a few seconds to take effect or equate it to a kick in the testicles. It cites Brian Michael Bendis, who co-created the character, as saying this. I've met Bendis on a couple of occasions, and photographed him for this and other articles, and while he appeared to be male, I admit I did not inspect him closely enough to determine if he had been castrated.

The article does not say that it takes that long to respond to being kicked in the testicles. It says that it takes that long for the effects of the venom strike to fully manifest themselves, and that it feels like being so kicked, per what Bendis said. Nightscream (talk) 01:47, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

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Miles Morales in Spider-Man (2017 TV series)

If you ask me, I think Kevin Shinick and those involved with the 2017 Spider-Man cartoon are doing a good job with their depiction of Miles Morales so far. As of the "Ultimate Spider-Man" episode, the spider that bit Miles Morales was identified to be the Electrolis Arachnatis which was one of the eight spiders that Raymond Warren had experimented on before the spiders were confiscated by Norman Osborn. This spider specimen got out when Miles Morales bumped into Spencer Smythe. What do you people think of this rendition of Miles Morales so far? --Rtkat3 (talk) 15:12, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

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Proposed move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved(closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 21:03, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

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Per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Comics#Characters, if characters are more commonly known by their civilian names (like Miles), then those should be used for the article of the character. This will also remove the need for disambiguation (WP:NATURALDIS). JOEBRO64 17:51, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Change to Miles Morales, per above. This is the common procedure for multiple characters that have at one time or another born the mantle of a particular superhero: Hal Jordan, Carol Danvers, Hank Pym. etc. It's also consistent with the practice of naming the article after the name by which the character is more commonly known, as Miles Morales is usually referred to in out-universe contexts as such, and not "Spider-Man." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nightscream (talk • contribs) 05:28, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

• Support' per nom. Comic characters are much easier to handle when titled based on their civilian name (if known) and only disambiguated further if there is a conflict. The correct way to handle these is that the articles named for the character summarize their fictional story and abilities (before, during, and after any aliases), whereas the article titled for an alias encompasses the use of that alias in various media and assumed by various characters. -- Netoholic @ 09:47, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
• Support: Most merchandise of his does just refer to Miles Morales. Plus that’s what most people refer to him as anyways. Pinky Rhino (talk) 04:17, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Of course he does have an Earth-616 counterpart who is an older man and a criminal that had connections with Kingpin as seen during the "Spider-Men II" storyline and the version of Miles that appears in Spider-Man hasn't become the second Spider-Man yet. Perhaps this merge might work. --Rtkat3 (talk) 16:45, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
• Support Rreagan007 (talk) 07:23, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

navbox update

Remember to fix all the links in navboxes.★Trekker (talk) 22:01, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 22:19, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Accusation of publicity stunt

I removed "with some { {Who?|date=December 2018} } decrying it as a publicity stunt motivated by [ [political correctness] ], a charge Alonso denied " from the page, because it has no reference, and it contains the canonical weasel-words "with some". Replace it only if you can find a reliable reference. Thanks, Nick Beeson (talk) 04:14, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

The passage indeed has references. In fact, it has four. The guideline on weasel words pertains to unsupported attributions. Since the passage is indeed attributed to the cited sources, this does not apply. The word "some" is not a policy violation simply because it appears in Wikipedia article, unless the citations do not support it. That phrase indeed appears in the cited sources.

Perhaps you meant that the citations were not in the Lead section. Since the Lead is a summary of the article's most salient information, this means it necessary repeats material in the article body, and per MOS:LEADCITE, that material does not necessarily need citations if there are citations for it in the body, unless it is controversial or likely to be challenged. I didn't think the material would be challenged when I wrote it, but I now added cites to the Lead that match the ones in the body. I apologize for taking so long to address your post, as I was unaware of it until now. Nightscream (talk) 01:47, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Homeworld and comic citation

I want to know if Ultimate Marvel (Earth-1610) should be added to the homeworld section on the character Infobox. Also I think that the citation of Spider-Man City at War #2 should be added on the video game section of the article. I don't know about this so I'm asking for opinions about this. Penguin7812 (talk) 09:48, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Well, the Batman and Superman articles both have the planet/city of origin, so it seems reasonable to include the city and borough, so I added it to both the Miles and the Peter Parker articles, per your suggestion. However, I don't think that parameter is for which "universe" a character is from, I'm guessing because the uninitiated reader wouldn't understand that.

As for City at War, can you clarify? I don't see such a citation. Nightscream (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Oh yeah, sorry. The comic series Spider-Man: City At War is comic book adaptation of the game Marvel's Spider-Man PS4. And Miles Morales appears in issue #2 of this series and I think that it should be mentioned in the video game second as a citation. Penguin7812 (talk) 05:31, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

I would add mention of it to the video game passage. You could also add a brief mention of it to the Other versions section. Nightscream (talk) 18:16, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Image deletion nomination(s)

One or more images currently used in this article have been nominated for deletion as violations of the non-free content criteria (NFCC).

You can read more about what this means and why these files are being nominated for deletion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics#Image deletion nominations for NFCC 8 and 3a.

You can participate at the deletion discussion(s) at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2020 April 26. If you are not familiar with NFCC-related deletion discussions, I recommend reading the post linked above first.

Sincerely, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 03:53, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Update "Other Versions" section with info on Ultimatum?

Miles appears in the prime universe (Earth-616) as a villian basically. He eventually becomes part of Mile's group of villians. With Giant Man's suit and Captain America's shield as weapons. His goal is to send Miles back to the Ultimate Universe so that he can be Earth-616's only Miles Morales. I think we should update Prime Mile's section to include information on him as the villian called "Ultimatum". Basically we have the section "Other versions" and the first subsection being "Ultimatum" since that depiction of Miles is signifigant enough, the second being a list of every other version.

Here's an exerpt from the Marvel Database (Source) that we can work off of. This contains plot information from Miles Morales: Spider-Man issues 10, 14, 16, and 19.

After Spending an unknown amount of time in the Ultimate Universe, Mile began to call himself Ultimatum and decided to travel back to the Prime Marvel Universe. For unknown reasons, he brought the Green Goblin with him. After reencountering his younger counterpart he visited Wilson Fisk, now the mayor of New York, to talk about running the streets with him again. He then proceeded to sell a drug, culled from Green Goblin's blood, throughout Brooklyn in order to have the people turned into his syndicate of Goblinoids.

After Prowler came to Ultimatum to deliver him a chemical, Ultimatum explained to Aaron about the nature of the Multiverse and his plan regarding the young Spider-Man, while knocking Davis out. Then Assessor and Spider-Man's clone, Asset 42, recaptured Spider-Man. Ultimatum confronted his younger counterpart and revealed that he was the Miles Morales of the 616 universe. He then explained to Spider-Man that after sending Miles and his entire family back to their original native universe, he would proceed to take over Brooklyn. However, after finding out that his henchmen failed to capture Spider-Man's parents, Prowler knocked him out after freeing himself and Miles.

The Ultimatum storyline is concluded in issue 21 but it hasn't been released or transcribed anywhere yet. 2604:2000:1107:8A76:3591:C2F7:17BA:F268 (talk) 03:04, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Other wikis like Fandom cannot be used as sources, per WP:USERG. Nightscream (talk) 14:27, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

There are other news articles reporting on the Ultimatum storyline. I meant to use the Wikia article as a “Draft” that would’ve been heavily edited. I’m busy right now but after your next reply I can link to some other news articles 2604:2000:1107:8A76:1989:70C8:B19:7232 (talk) 18:00, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

@Nightscream: Took a while but here are like 7 different articles reporting on the Miles Morales Ultimatum plotline. Again, Fandom was meant to act as a template to be edited. The described portion doesn't even cover the whole story. The final issue of the Ultimatum plotline releases around December 2nd 2020 so by then we should have something set up.

For all of the lurkers who might want to edit, Comicstorian does a good summary of the entire Spider-Ma: Miles Morales comic so if you cant find a copy or any good summaries try him. The video linked only cover issues 18-20, but the earlier issues are in the description. 2604:2000:1107:8A76:55D9:5A7D:4F64:F919 (talk) 02:33, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

"Natacha Bustos takes over Miles Morales: Spider-Man #22" (November 9th 2020)

"Captain America Takes a Side in Miles Morales' Civil War" (November 5th 2020)

"Spider-Man: Miles Morales Just Came Face to Face With His Twisted Reflection" (October 9th 2020)

"Miles Morales: Spider-Man #20" (November 1st 2020)

"Miles Morales Has a BIG Problem in the Ultimatum Saga's Conclusion" (September 18th 2020)

"Miles Morales is Teaming Up With Captain America" (August 24th 2020)

"Ultimatum's Identity Is Revealed - And It Spells Bad News For Miles Morales" (September 14th 2019)

I think Ultimatum should get his own article if he's become that significant a character.

In teenaged Miles' article however, I think it should be restricted to summary mentions of him in perhaps two places: In the fictional character biography section, which summarizes the major plot appearances of the villain, and an even more summarized addendum to the first paragraph of the Other versions section, which merely reiterates/redirects to the passage I just described. Nightscream (talk) 02:44, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

@Nightscream: Which passage did you describe? Anyway people are a bit iffy on the Ultimatum storyline so unless he gets a major appearance in a cartoon or movie (Like Spider-Verse?) I'd just make an "Ultimatum" section in this page, abridge his existing description and make a short summary of his activity as a villian, and redirect "Ultimatum (Marvel Comics Character)" to that section. If we need a picture then this one of him donning Ultimate Captain America's shield and Giant Man's suit should work. 2604:2000:1107:8A76:F450:35B2:4F04:2B5F (talk) 20:32, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

There already is an entire paragraph devoted to him in the Other versions section. I thought you were indicating that he has made subsequent appearances. If he has, and appears in significant coverage in secondary sources, then he could qualify for his own article. If he hasn't, then I see no need to expand the material on him in this article. Nightscream (talk) 00:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

@Nightscream: That's exactly what I'm saying. The other versions portion should be updated because currently, he is not on Earth-1610 but Earth-616. Even if not the way I'm saying, his current exploits as a villian should be elaborated on in both Miles's biography section and Ultimatum's section. If my first sentence confused you then sorry about that, he's made appearences from September 2019 until now as the villian Ultimatum.

I'm saying he should not have his own page (Like you suggested) until he becomes notable enough, and until then his section on this article should be updated and any attempt to search up "Miles Morales Earth 616" or "Ultimatum (Marvel Comics Character)" should redirect to the "Other versions" portion here. 2604:2000:1107:8A76:F47F:ABCB:FB47:4A0C (talk) 03:53, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

So what updates do you recommend? Nightscream (talk) 23:31, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I already said.: "I think we should update [Ultimatum's] section to include information on him. Basically we have the "Other versions" section and the first subsection being "Ultimatum" since that depiction of Miles is signifigant enough [to be distinguised], the second being a list of every other version."

You also suggested to include most of the major plot developments involving Ultimatum in Miles's biography section, with an "even more summarized" description of him in his own section. It's a bit funny given that were describing two versions of the same character with on of them not even qualifying for his own page. 2604:2000:1107:8A76:F47F:ABCB:FB47:4A0C (talk) 02:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I understand that you said that, but I'm not clear on what it is, more precisely, that you want to change. What I was getting at --- and I'm sorry I didn't come out and say it more explicitly --- was to suggest that you present your suggested edit here, so we can then discuss it. :-) Nightscream (talk) 22:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Nightscream:Thank you for clearing that up. Sorry I didn't get to it sooner, I'm just honestly bad at editing Wikipedia pages. I was hoping some other people would jump in and help me based on the information and sources I've laid out. Anyway let me just propose an extention of Ultimatum's existing section here. Not expecting us to put this all in until around January since it's only two of us:

"After spending some time in the Ultimate Universe, Miles began to call himself "Ultimatum" and traveled back to his home universe with Giant Man's suit, Captain America's shield, and the native Green Goblin as his henchman. He created and sold drugs from Goblin's blood in order to mutate people in Brooklyn into Goblinoids. After discovering his teenaged counterpart, Ultimatum has Miles kidnapped by the Assesor and a clone of Spider-Man. He reveals to a restrained Aaron Davis and Miles the nature of the Multiverse and his plan to send Miles and his entire family back to their home universe."

Here's a summary of similar events on Ultimate Green Goblin's page which I feel should be incorporated into the edit. The first portion is more important than the second:

"When Empire State University's engineering facility comes under attack, Miles Morales as Spider-Man encounters the Goblin. When fighting him, Miles remembered this version of Goblin. During the fight with the Goblin, Miles is ambushed by a villain called Ultimatum who subdues with size-shifting powers. After somehow remembering Miles, Ultimatum grabs the Goblin and uses his rocket boots to make off with him.<ref>''Miles Morales: Spider-Man'' #10. Marvel Comics.</ref>"'' :::::''"After he managed to obtain a sample of the drug that Ultimatum was producing, Spider-Man II was attacked again by the Goblin. Miles managed to defeat the Goblin and hand him over to the police.<ref>''Miles Morales: Spider-Man'' #14. Marvel Comics.</ref> The Goblin managed to escape and use his drug to turn people into smaller versions of himself called Goblinoids. With his Goblinoids, the Goblin led them in attacking Brooklyn Visions Academy. Though he was defeated by Spider-Man II again, the Goblin got away.<ref>''Miles Morales: Spider-Man'' #15. Marvel Comics.</ref>"

2604:2000:1107:8A76:A915:A2A8:DE23:FDE2 (talk) 22:40, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I'm a bit lost, because I thought "Ultimatum" was the name of the adult Miles, but now I read above that it's someone with size-shifting powers.

In any event, how would you incorporate the info you think is relevant into this article? Nightscream (talk) 06:15, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

@Nightscream: You are confused. Ultimatum is adult Miles. From Prime Marvel. One that was never bitten by a spider because the events that led Miles to being bit never happened in the Prime Marvel Universe. He stole technology that enables size shifting powers. 2604:2000:1107:8A76:71EC:237D:7D30:EAEC (talk) 17:46, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

I know that up until the size-shifting bit. (I read the Spider-Men miniseries, and am the one who added the current info on him in the article.) I just haven't read past that.

Why don't you take the passage(s) in the article to which you wish to add updated info and present your proposed additions to them here? Nightscream (talk) 02:01, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

@Nightscream: A bit late but here's my draft, with no citations since that got hard to manage in source. 2604:2000:1107:8A76:2941:189D:61C4:1996 (talk) 03:01, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Ultimatum (Earth-616/Prime Universe) (Draft 1)

(This image With a caption like: "A criminal Miles Morales from the Prime Universe (Spider-Men II #3, November 2017)" This image of his Ultimatum persona. Caption like: "Ultimatum wearing Giant Man's suit (Miles Morales: Spider-Man #10 November 2019)")

In the 2012 miniseries Spider-Men, the mainstream Marvel Universe Peter Parker briefly visits the Ultimate Marvel universe and meets Miles Morales.[99] This was followed up in the 2017 sequel miniseries Spider-Men II, in which the Earth-616 version of Miles Morales makes his first appearance,[100] and is revealed to be a fully-grown adult with a scarred face.[67][101][102][103] The version of Miles became a close friend and confidant to the mob enforcer Wilson Fisk when he saved Fisk's life in prison, an event that resulted in the scars on Miles' face. Miles worked for Fisk following their time in prison, aiding him during Wilson's violent rise to crime boss in New York. Subsequent to this, after Miles fell in love with a woman named Barbara Sanchez, Fisk arranged to have all traces of Miles' existence erased from searchable records in order help Miles leave his criminal life behind him.[104][105] Years later, after Barbara died, Fisk informs a grief-stricken Miles that he has knowledge of a parallel universe in which Barbara might still be alive.[106] Miles hires the Taskmaster, who confirms not only that the Ultimate Universe still exists following the events of the "Secret Wars" storyline, but that its version of Barbara is still alive. The adult Miles journeys to the Ultimate Universe to reunite with his lost love, essentially switching places with his younger counterpart.[107]

''After spending some time in the Ultimate Universe, Miles began to call himself "Ultimatum" and traveled back to his home universe with Giant Man's suit, Captain America's shield, and the native Green Goblin as his henchman. He created and sold drugs from Goblin's blood in order to mutate people in Brooklyn into Goblinoids. After discovering his teenaged counterpart<ref>''Miles Morales: Spider-Man'' #10. Marvel Comics.</ref>'', Ultimatum has Miles kidnapped by the Assesor and a clone of Spider-Man. He reveals to a restrained Aaron Davis and Miles the nature of the Multiverse and his plan to send Miles and his entire family back to the Ultimate universe. However, after finding out that his henchmen failed to capture Spider-Man's parents, Prowler knocked him out after freeing himself and Miles.''<ref>''Miles Morales: Spider-Man'' #19. Marvel Comics.</ref>"'' :''They fight through a horde of Brooklyn residents mutated into Goblinoids with the help of Starling, Captain America, Jefferson Davis, and Bombshell. A supersized Ultimatum and Green Goblin catch up to them and begins battling the heroes. Ultimatum nearly succees in teleporting Miles and Aaron to their home universe, but Aaron sacrifices himself by overloading his Prowler suit and destroying the machine causing it, sending both Ultimatum and Green Goblin back to the Ultimate Universe.''<ref>''Miles Morales: Spider-Man'' #20. Marvel Comics.</ref>"

Alternate versions of Miles Morales

(Every other version gets listed here.)

I think it's way too much detail for a simple storyline. I think just the essentials could be summarized thus:

Miles eventually takes on the criminal identity of Ultimatum, and returns to the Marvel-616 universe with the Ultimate Universe's Green Goblin as his henchman, where he kidnaps the teenaged Miles and Aaron Davis, whom Ultimatum informs of the multiverse. After the two abductees free themselves, they and their allies battle Ultimatum's forces, during which Aaron sacrifices himself to destroy the machine (<< what machine? >>), sending the two villains back to the Ultimate Universe.

As I noted in my proposed tweak, what "machine" is being referred to here? Nightscream (talk) 03:17, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

@Nightscream:It was never named. But it was introduced while Ultimatum kidnapped Miles and Aaron. During the final fight he had apparently shrunk it beforehand and regrew it before activating it. I also left the existing portion unedited. So right now the body looks like this? 2603:7000:1F00:6B91:7448:6E4E:6E55:FBD9 (talk) 22:50, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

@2603:7000:1F00:6B91:7448:6E4E:6E55:FBD9: Yes, but you have to establish it first. You can't just make a passing reference to "the machine" near the end of the paragraph, without establishing what it is, or what function it has in the story. The name of the main character in Tenet is never revealed, but the opening sentence of the plot section of that film's article establishes who and what he is. Hell, just the first five words of the sentence do this.

Also, editors who intend to do more than just a one-off edit are expected to create a username account. This also makes it easier to address them. Could you consider doing so? Thanks. And btw, Happy Holidays! Nightscream (talk) 00:28, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Can't. And yeah, in the second draft I did refer to the machine and its function at the start. I've already sent the image files I want in the Ultimatum section to Wikipedia:Files for upload but you can punch them in if you don't mind. 2603:7000:1F00:6B91:B462:F9C1:651C:4096 (talk) 01:07, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Okay, sorry I missed that. Reading it now, I see that it just says it's for "his goals", but nothing else. If it's not necessary for a reader's understanding of the passage, then we can leave it out. Nightscream (talk) 23:23, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Ultimatum (Earth-616/Prime Universe) (Draft 2)

(This image, Caption: "A criminal Miles Morales from the Prime Universe (Spider-Men II #3, November 2017)" This image of Ultimatum persona, Caption: "Miles as Ultimatum (Miles Morales: Spider-Man #10 November 2019)" either one or both is acceptable)

In the 2012 miniseries Spider-Men, the mainstream Marvel Universe Peter Parker briefly visits the Ultimate Marvel universe and meets Miles Morales.[99] This was followed up in the 2017 sequel miniseries Spider-Men II, in which the Earth-616 version of Miles Morales makes his first appearance,[100] and is revealed to be a fully-grown adult with a scarred face.[67][101][102][103] The version of Miles became a close friend and confidant to the mob enforcer Wilson Fisk when he saved Fisk's life in prison, an event that resulted in the scars on Miles' face. Miles worked for Fisk following their time in prison, aiding him during Wilson's violent rise to crime boss in New York. Subsequent to this, after Miles fell in love with a woman named Barbara Sanchez, Fisk arranged to have all traces of Miles' existence erased from searchable records in order help Miles leave his criminal life behind him.[104][105] Years later, after Barbara died, Fisk informs a grief-stricken Miles that he has knowledge of a parallel universe in which Barbara might still be alive.[106] Miles hires the Taskmaster, who confirms not only that the Ultimate Universe still exists following the events of the "Secret Wars" storyline, but that its version of Barbara is still alive. The adult Miles journeys to the Ultimate Universe to reunite with his lost love, essentially switching places with his younger counterpart.[107]

Miles eventually took on the criminal identity of Ultimatum, and returns to the Marvel-616 universe with the Ultimate Universe's Green Goblin as his henchman. He kidnaps the teenaged Miles and Aaron Davis, whom Ultimatum informs of the multiverse and reveals a the machine he plans to use for his goals. After the two abductees free themselves, they and their allies battle Ultimatum's forces, during which Aaron sacrifices himself to destroy Ultimatum's machine, and sends the two villains back to the Ultimate Universe.

Alternate versions of Miles Morales

(Every other version gets listed here.)

Removed image file

Dunno who removed the image of Ultimatum Miles but it was approved for Wiki use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_upload#Miles_Morales_(Earth-616)_from_Miles_Morales_Spider-Man_Vol_1_10_001.png here. It gets deleted if it is not in an article for seven days. This image is just as cited as every other image in the article. 2603:7000:1F00:6B91:2969:7C86:46D0:F624 (talk) 18:38, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

• From a look at it, Nightscream removed it other parts for uncited material per WP:V/WP:NOR. Pissedgreenlink (talk) 18:46, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I have not removed any photo. The Ultimatum image is still in the article. Nightscream (talk) 01:24, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Because I put it back. You removed it in this version of the article and I undid it. Again, the image is just as well cited as every other image in the article and has been verified for use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miles_Morales&oldid=998725247#Ultimatum

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miles_Morales&type=revision&diff=998725247&oldid=998521446

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miles_Morales&type=revision&diff=998935749&oldid=998725247

2603:7000:1F00:6B91:2969:7C86:46D0:F624 (talk) 01:44, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I missed that. I was removing the uncited "protoge" passage, and didn't realize I was removing a photo too. Thanks for restoring it. Nightscream (talk) 05:02, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Miles’ powers

Why is Miles’ powers wording of his powers different than Spider-Man and Spider-Woman (Gwen Stacy)? He essentially has the same powers has them except the invisibility and venom powers. So shouldn’t his superhuman skills be the same? Strength-yes, speed-yes, agility-yes, durability?-I say yes. Also they both say accelerated healing, which is just better way of saying resistance to injury. Yes he can’t get hurt, because all the damage he takes will just heal itself up rapidly. Just my case. Kinsley Bottom (talk) 04:08, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

The Spider-Man article makes no mention of durability. The Spider-Woman (Gwen Stacy) article did not include any citation for that claim, nor any mention of it in the Powers and abilities section, so I removed it per WP:V/WP:NOR/WP:CS/WP:PSTS, et al.

Even if they did, how their articles are composed would depend at least in part on how those powers were defined in those sources.

And for that matter, why should his article be written the same as theirs? Why should theirs not be written the same as his? Nightscream (talk) 15:14, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

So as I long as I find sources that support my case, you’re cool with keeping them? I noticed you didn’t remove their accelerated healing, which again is the same as resisting to injuries. Kinsley Bottom (talk) 17:06, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

No it isn't. Resistance to injury means just that: That you have a degree of invulnerability, which prevents you from getting injured. A healing factor enables you to recover after you've been injured.

I favor retaining information that is in keeping with the site's policies on WP:V, WP:NOR, WP:CS, et al.

I didn't do an all-encompassing review of those other two articles, but since you brought it up, I did a closer examination of the Powers sections in them.

• There was no source for any "durability" or accelerated healing in the Spider-Woman (Gwen Stacy) article, nor any mention of it in the Powers section, so I removed it. However, there was also, strangely enough, no mention of her speed or agility in the article body. It's as if people add stuff to the Infobox, as if it's a "substitute" for the material in the article's body, when in reality, the Infobox, like the Lead section, is simply to display information that's already found in the body in summary form. I went and found a source for her speed/agility, and added it to the Powers section.
• There was also no mention of healing ability in the Powers section of the Peter Parker article either. Since I actually read a 1989 issue that explicitly indicated this (possibly the one in which writer David Michelenie himself established it), I added it to that section, and cited that issue as the source. Nightscream (talk) 20:34, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Didn't really answer my question. If I find sources that support my cases, will you be ok that?Kinsley Bottom (talk) 04:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Probably did not answer because that is not a fair question. I certainly would not blindly accept that unseen sources that you claim to have would be acceptable. You have made multiple attempts to add unsourced claims. Show us your supposed sources and let other editors decide if they are reliable sources, and if they are sufficient to support your claims. Meters (talk) 04:51, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

And Nightscream is completely correct in saying that accelerated healing is different from invulnerability. If you don't understand that you probably should not be editing this. Meters (talk) 04:56, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

You know I don't really see why we are comparing Miles to Ghost Spider. Granted I have been putting King in black arc on hold for a while, but wouldn't the comparison make more sense with a person that doesn't have a symbiote? Unless I am wrong and him getting a symbiote in the arc is made permanent. P.greenlink (talk) 18:43, April 2, 2021 (UTC)

Kinda off topic my friend. I’m not really making any comparisons, just pointing out some of the similarities between the characters. When I have the time I’ll look for sources.Kinsley Bottom (talk) 22:55, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I don’t know how this thing turned into a roast of me. Calling me stupid and illiterate, is taking a bit too much. So everyone just calm the hell down, ok. Alright, I found some sources. There wasn’t a lot, but the few I found is here. I also included one for Spider-Gwen too. Do with this what you will. If you revert it, I’ll get the message. I’m too stupid to be on here and should piss off. But if not, I will gladly continue having this conversation. That being said:

• https://www.marvel.com/characters/spider-man-miles-morales/in-comics — from the official marvel website. Lists all his powers and also interestingly enough it says, ″resistance to injury″. So congrats on that.
• https://www.thegamer.com/spiderman-miles-morales-superpowers-unknown/ — not sure about the website, but since it’s owned by the same company that also runs ScreenRant, CBR, and Gamerant, I’ll leave it here. PS, I know it mainly talks about the video game but the powers listed are the same here.
• https://www.marvel.com/characters/spider-woman-gwen-stacy/in-comics — again, from the official marvel website.

Kinsley Bottom (talk) 05:42, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

You're not being roasted, and no one has called you stupid. But you've demonstrated an inability to distinguish between two different sets of terms, which worries me for an encyclopedia editor. But I'm not going to labor this point. I appreciate that you're willing to discuss things and look for sources, and even concede when one of them supports the POV of the person who disagree with. That takes honesty and class, which I often don't see in disagreements, so please understand that I genuinely appreciate it, and I apologize if I came across as unduly hurtful in my criticism above. Perhaps I should've found a way to admonish in a manner that came across more positive.

Regarding the sourcing issue, this article is about the comics character, not the video game character. Since the Marvel source already said "resistant to injury," as you stated, I imagine that settles this. Regarding the Marvel page on Gwen, what precisely does it say? I looked for the words "heal", "injury", etc., and didn't find them. The only place "durability" appears is under that "meter" at the top, and I find the "3" rating to be vague.

I'll add that Marvel source about Miles to the article.

Also, I removed the ref tags around your sources, so that they don't show up at the bottom of this page. Let me know if you're not okay with this. Nightscream (talk) 03:44, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I accept your apology. It’s much better if we’re civilized and calm during these discussions, rather than getting heated. All that being said, what about the sections that said about the superhuman attributes—like strength, speed, stamina, etc.—with the official website listing these, do we include them or not? The same applies to the Spider-Gwen page as well. Thanks for this.
PS: Thank you for the sources situation, wasn’t sure how to do it myself. Kinsley Bottom (talk) 01:54, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Don't they already do so now? Nightscream (talk) 14:50, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I meant the ones that aren’t listed like Superhuman Reflexes and Superhuman Durability—that’s from the first Miles Morales source. Sorry, if I meant any confusion there. Kinsley Bottom (talk) 16:51, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Okay, I just added superhuman reflexes to Miles' article. Nightscream (talk) 00:51, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Trivia worthy?

In 2004 in the first episode of "Boston Legal" while delivering a passionate speech on racial equality, Reverend Al Sharpton (playing himself) demands, among other things, "give us an African-American Spiderman". Quotable Source: http://tvmegasite.net/prime/shows/boston/transcripts/season1/bl-trans-0101.shtml 2003:CA:3F21:5F99:2120:332B:1F8:CC43 (talk) 12:23, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

That has nothing to do with the subject of this article, which first appeared in 2011. Nightscream (talk) 14:11, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

The "first" black Spider-Man before Miles

I was looking through some few years old Marvel-related threads on Reddit and saw this. This was from issue 1 of the Spidey Super Stories comic series, 1974.

https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/hf4o1u/the_1st_black_spiderman_before_miles_morales/

Copying-and-pasting what the user who found this issue said in the thread.

So just to give some context - I was going through my collection of Bronze Age comics and I found my classic Spidey Super Stories issues from the early 70s.

Spidey Super Stories was a kid-friendly ongoing series that started in 1974 in conjunction with The Electric Company TV series (that classic kid's show that helped launch Morgan Freeman's career). I believe the comic book series lasted for 57 issues and many major Marvel characters made appearances throughout the series.

Anyway, in the very first issue, there was a story about a bullied teen named Duane who gets knocked out. He gets a visit from Spider-Man and gets his own Spider-man costume to confront his bullies. But he ends up having to dodge and escape Electro and Vulture.

It is revealed that the whole thing was a dream sequence when the bully knocked him out. The bully apologizes and all is good. And even though it was just a dream sequence, I do not recall ever seeing a full story about a Black teen character dressing up like Spider-man and having a full adventure.

Just sharing to see what fellow Spider-Man fans think. An odd discovery while enjoying some classic comics. Cheers

Dream sequence or not, it still feels like something worth mentioning somewhere in the article, thats all I'm saying. 37.123.169.90 (talk) 06:40, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Ditko copyright dispute

I am seeing media reports to the effect that Miles' creation was motivated in part by the possibility that Marvel might lose the copyright to all Ditko-produced elements of Spider-Man, such as the name "Peter Parker," the costume, the supporting characters, etc. Although the case has just been settled out of court, with Marvel retaining the rights, this aspect does seem significant (if true). Can anyone confirm? --Dawud — Preceding unsigned comment added by 111.249.54.98 (talk) 05:09, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

"Spider-Man ( Miles Morales )" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Spider-Man ( Miles Morales ) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 March 2 § Spider-Man ( Miles Morales ) until a consensus is reached. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:03, 2 March 2024 (UTC)