Talk:Mevlevi Order

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Islamic Mysticism

Introduction Ever religious belief has its mystical side to it. For the Islamic faith, that mystical side is Sufism. The word Sufi is derived from the Arabic work soof, meaning wool. This is because of the Sufi habit of wearing woolen coats, a designation of their initiation into the Sufi order. The early Sufi orders considered the wearing of this coat as an imitation of Isa bin Maryam (Jesus). Sufi’s, see themselves to be on a spiritual journey towards God (tariqah). Though Sufi’s are Muslims, they have a different perspective to the closeness of God then that of regular Muslim. Muslims believe that they are on a pathway to God and will become close to God in paradise after the death and final Judgment, Sufi’s believe that one can come just as close to God during life. Sufism is defined as a noble behavior, abandoning oneself to God, and being in constant union. From these definitions it becomes apparent that Sufism is a way of life rather then just a religious sect of Islam.

Relationship with God To a Sufi, the point of life is to attain closeness to God. Sufi’s believe that the mere observance of religious law (shari’ah) is the minimum, outer limits, which can be done to experience God. They believe that all Muslims should be encouraged to desire inner, personal experience of the divine (use of meditation, and other means). However, when trying to experience an inner relationship with God one must first overcome their Naf (human ego that causes struggle). To do so certain things must be done: · Control oneself from acting out one’s anger or gratifying addictions · Negate the sense that one cannot escape one’s depression · Give up imagining that God is absent · One must unconditionally embrace the presence of God (taslim) The struggle with ones Naf has been called al-jihad al-akbar (or the greater struggle). The only way to truly experience an inner relationship with God, as a Sufi, is to overcome ones Naf. However, if the Naf cannot be overcome then we may be overwhelmed by the need to gratify desires such as anger, lust, and many addictions that afflict us. When the Naf has been overcome one may have an experience in which they become drawn to the presence of God, known as jadhbah (attraction).

Rituals One of the Sufi rituals, most likely the most important, is that of dance (e.g. dance of peace). Groups of Sufi’s have committed themselves to dance as a form of worship. This group is known as the “Whirling Dervishes”. The Dervishes, mainly found in Turkey, belong to The Mevlevi Order, which was founded by Jalâluddîn Rumi 7 centuries ago.

Sufi Ideas: · Early Sufi’s emphasized the awesome fear of God and ascetic self denial · Centrality of love of God (mahabbah) · Allegorical and symbolic interpretation of the Qur’an · Absorb mystical elements from other cultures and religions

Dervish studying - image

Dervish studying

This image in the Preview section is a museum recreation as disclosed by the author. Close examination of the image reveals the generic museum setting i.e., the position of the box in front of the window and the dust there, all windows closed, &c. As such it adds no value to the article and should be removed.

Circling or rotating central sheikh?

I have no expertise on Sufi ritual, though I have watched the Sema without a central Sheikh. So I am reluctant to alter this page and ask that an expert clarify or make the changes.

I am concerned about the sentence "The sema was practised ... with the dervished whirling in a circle around their sheikh, who is the only one circling around his axis." Surely the sheikh is rotating on his axis rather than circling (while rotating) which is what the dervishes are doing?

If the central sheikh rotates on his main physical axis, this overall pattern of the Sema appears to reflect the Solar System with the Sheikh acting as the Sun and would be a symbolic celebration and path towards unification with the creator of the universe. Of course, the Copernican model of the Solar System [1534] was not known in the 13th century, in which case the Sheikh would represent the Earth in the Ptolemaic system. Robertcurrey (talk) 06:41, 30 September 2008 (UTC) RJDC

The bit about the solar system is an interesting point. The source I found in my brief search (Mevlevi Order of America) also used the solar system analogy, but I read it as a description of what they do rather than why they do it. There's also no mention of the person in the middle though the picture clearly shows someone there. I might do some research on this topic, as it's always interested me. Recognizance (talk) 18:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

If I may, without much specific knowledge, I know the whirling is done with a priest, whom I have always heard called "head priest", moving slowly in the midst of the whirling dervishes. As I have observed them, it has always appeared to me that the head priest is somehow "leading his congregation" of whirling dervishes while simultaneously observing/praying with, them. At the same time I have also seen whirling done without a head priest, but I believe that is a slightly less formal situation, or perhaps a situation when a head priest is lacking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.21.112.123 (talk) 15:39, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

"Mawlawi" vs "Mevlevi"

Having read about and performed with the Turkish Mevlevi at the annual sema in Konya and on a US tour, I'm surprised that the Persian word "Mawlawi" heads this section rather than the word "Mevlevi" used in Turkey to refer to the mystical order, the whirling ceremony, and the music. I suspect this is part of a trend in Turkey to associate spiritual matters with the greater Islamic world, but it seems to me confusing to non-Turkish reader of the English Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neyzenhasan (talk • contribs) 16:57, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:13, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

---

Mawlawi Order → Mevlevi Order – per WP:COMMONNAME

According to google books:

• "Mawlawi order" -Llc 98
• "Mevlevi order" -Llc 396

-- Takabeg (talk) 12:14, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

• Support per nom, makes sense. - Darwinek (talk) 10:01, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sema, not Sama

Please...--E4024 (talk) 11:52, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

What's the deal with this? The article switches to 'Sema' for a quote and it's "Sama" everywhere else, including a link to the Sama page. Paradox (talk) 04:34, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Ottoman Empire ?

In the article, these are both stated that Mevlevi Order was foound in 1273, and Mevlevi Order was found in Ottoman Empire. Ottoman Empire was found in 1299 so how are these both correct ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.96.86.212 (talk) 10:22, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

is mevlevi order all about sema?

The things written in this page give no other information but that of sema. Is this all mevlevi order and culture is about? Isn't there anything more to show people about an order that is 600 years old and that has deeply affected Turkish cultural and mystic life? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.227.144.10 (talk) 01:31, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

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