Talk:Metox radar detector

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I used to teach radio/radar/sonar theory in the mid-60's. When discussing superhetrodyne theory, I used the Metox receiver as an example of what can happen if the local oscillator is not sufficiently isolated from the antenna. The story was something along the line that the Metox was effective for a while, but the British soon discovered they could pick up the LO radiation from the sub's Metox, and home in on it without having to activate their radar transmitter, effectively discouraging its use. Unfortunately, I don't remember the source of this anecdote, as I much later discovered it may have been a disinformation effort by the British. Karl Andrews (talk) 12:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, if it was disinformation, it worked, because Donitz became rather obsessed about anything (Metox included) that "radiated", which seems rather silly when one considers his micromanaging of the U-boat force by radio/wireless was responsible for thousands of his sailor's lives. Another point to be made is the bit in the article about how Metox rendered British radar "completely ineffective". Utter nonsense. Metox detected radar, it didn't magically nullify its ability to detect a surfaced submarine. I also don't think forum discussions on uboat.net are reliable sources.--172.191.204.206 (talk) 01:04, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Metox did not render the radar operationally ineffective, as Metox did not prevent the radar from detecting anything in its range. However, it did render the radar tactically ineffective, because once the radar detected a U-boat, as the aircraft approached within range to do something about it, the U-boat, having detected the aircraft's approach, had already dived out of harm's way. DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 15:44, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Karl - yes it was a disinformation campaign that worked well; I am not an expert but as METOX was passive, it would not emit anything that could be detected? There is a way to energise a passive receiver and make it detectable (see Peter Wright's Spycatcher book for the full details) but this would be just as detectable as using the radar in the first place. I opened this talk to disagree with the suggestion that METOX made radar "completely ineffective"; as noted, it could only range find in a very crude fashion, and it's direction finding abilities were I think almost nil. Therefore the u-boat commander could only really be sure rthat there was an emitting radar either less than 9 miles away if the "close" setting was detected, but on the "far" radar setting, the emitting plane could be 36 miles away and possibly further. The commander would have to make the decision whether to submerge or not. This is not a simple process; u-boats travelled on the surface at night to recharge batteries and also to increase their route speed out of the Bay of Biscay and into the Atlantic. To have to submerge in the course of the journey across the Bay would result in delays to their deployment, plus increased crew fatigue and stress. Additionally, a u-boat might have as little as a couple of minutes to react and dive, and mistakes could be made leading to damage or loss of the vessel. Therefore - I would suggest "completely ineffective" is changed to "rendered less effective"? Mungo Shuntbox (talk) 09:48, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm only surmised here, but as Uboats became INCREDIBLY EASY TO FIND (when using thus apparatus), I'm betting it used a regenerative superregenerative receiver; as regens radiate ON the frequency they're tuned to, it would have been a "piece of cake" to get a fix on... fly "down the beam" as it were, and bomb the boat, coming right out of the clouds, as reported by MANY U-boat skippers... most, too late! Ref: "Iron Coffins", by Commander Herbert A. Warner Kreigsmarine U-boat skipper. 174.16.55.21 (talk) 16:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)