Talk:Maghrebi mint tea

What kind of mint?

Spearmint or peppermint? --DenisYurkin 13:50, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

spearmint Gedefr 22:08, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Edit

I edited out the part that read "five teaspoons of sugar to a teaspoon of tea" because that was just absurd, probably the author meant it the other way around, but as I am not sure about that I just had to edit it out. Pouring 1 teaspoon of tea on top of 5 teaspoons of sugar will get you a gooey white substance at best but nothing resembling tea

Sufitul 22:51, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

You did not get it right. Mint tea is brewed and sugar added in the teapot, not in a glass. 1 tea for 5 sugar is a general proportion. For a 80 cl tea pot (that's 2.5 mugs), I put one tablespoon of tea and 5 tablespoons of sugar.

Gedefr 21:29, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The confusion seems to be that Sufitul was imagining five teaspoons of sugar per each teaspoon of the tea liquid, whereas what it meant was five teaspoons of sugar per each teaspoon of dry tea leaves. --Delirium 21:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, that explains it. I added the word "leaves" for clarification, as I was confused too. Sounded very sugary! 74.12.182.220 (talk) 18:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Mentha Tea with Almonds

In Tunisia (southern coast) I was served mentha tea with almonds - a couple of almonds is put into a glass before the tea is poured in and served to a guest. However, as this information could be considered "own research", I am not putting it the article proper. B.

This is also done with Pine nuts. 134.2.12.41 (talk) 14:11, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I lived in the Middle East for 2 years. And not in any of the more modern cities either. I lived in a very traditional section...I am confused by the tea being a "Male affair" because I may have seen men make this maybe 5 times....when I saw it made about that many times per day. Maybe it is different in different countries, but in Jordan (and I am not basing this on 1 family but on about 20 at least)....I feel this is an incorrect statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.72.172.184 (talk) 15:11, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Moved

For common English the content of this article "Moroccan mint tea" was moved from "Touareg tea" icetea8 (talk) 13:25, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Moved

Moved to "Moroccan mint tea", common English. icetea8 (talk) 14:45, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

That was a cut and paste move and has been undone. A redirect at Moroccan mint tea is pointing to this article. If the desired location is at Moroccan mint tea, then a request should be made to an admin to delete the redirect at the target, and properly move the article to that title. -- Whpq (talk) 16:20, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Copyvio

There is a potential copyvio with material at [1]. I've done some analysis and concluded that this is a reverse copyvio and the Wikipedia material is the original.

Firstly, the Wayback Machine indicates the LeJardinsKesali web site only goes back to 2008. That is not definitive but we can look at our own article history. This edit clearly shows the origin of the preparation paragraph. The start of the paragraph has the same wording as in more recent versions of the article. Over time, the body has been developed to the current wording which is also reflected on the Lesjardins website.

As such, I am reverting the material blanking as it not a copyvio. -- Whpq (talk) 16:26, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Name of tea

The English name is Moroccan mint tea. icetea8 (talk) 18:05, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 5 June 2015

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved to Maghrebi mint tea. --BDD (talk) 16:36, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Mint tea (Drink) → ? – This article has been boldly moved around a lot. It's time for a formal discussion. The current title is unacceptable, and should redirect to the mint tea disambiguation. The tea described in this article is a local North African version of spearmint tea, as it is prepared with spearmint. This started in August 2004 at Touareg tea, presumably as the tea of the Touareg or Tuareg people. A fork started in September 2006 at Moroccan tea culture. In March 2014, that fork moved to Maghrebi mint tea, the mint tea of the Maghreb region (Northwest Africa). In May 2014, the Touareg tea fork moved to Moroccan mint tea; rationale: WP:ENGLISH. I don't follow that; if Touareg isn't English, we should fix it. In January 2015, the Maghrebi mint tea fork was finally merged to Moroccan mint tea. Perhaps that merge should have been in the other direction. Maghrebi mint tea and Tuareg tea seem like our best options. Or, for "use English", Northwest African mint tea. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 10:09, 12 June 2015 (UTC) – Wbm1058 (talk) 02:24, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

• Comment at the very least, the current title is misformatted, and needs to be moved to mint tea (drink) -- 70.51.46.11 (talk) 04:32, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

  Isn't (drink) redundant? There is nothing at mint tea that is not a drink. This is a partially disambiguated page name (see WP:PDAB), and I don't believe that the North African version is a clear primary topic for the title. Wbm1058 (talk) 12:01, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I think what the other uses was saying was simply that if we decided to (drink) that it should be lowercase not uppercase as it is now. I don't believe that it was a recommendation to do so.--67.68.29.99 (talk) 01:57, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

• Move to "Maghrebi mint tea". Here "Maghrebi" will serve as a suitable and neutral disambiguator: it applies equally to all the ethnicities and nationalities who traditionally claim this mint tea, for example Tuareg Berbers, Moroccans, Tunisians, etc. I agree it is our best choice as nom suggested. Khestwol (talk) 21:27, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

  Right, if both the Berbers and Tuareg people claim this as their tea, then that would tend to rule out using either for natural disambiguation in the title. – Wbm1058 (talk) 12:54, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

• Support Maghrebi mint tea. – Wbm1058 (talk) 12:54, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

• Please note: in order to preserve history, Talk:Maghrebi mint tea/Archive 1 now has talk page content formerly located here. That's a little clumsy, since its content is from January 2015, but the archive can be mixed around a bit if necessary. The redirect Moroccan mint tea now contains the history that started out there before being merged here. Confusing? Yeah, but I think I've made sure everything is preserved somewhere. --BDD (talk) 16:43, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

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Moroccan ment tea

First you said, this is not an historian. After historian source you said go to talk page. Why ? The source is correct. Ifni95 (talk) 00:19, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Actually, Christian Grataloup is a geographer.[2] Ken Albala, cited in the history section has another version on how the tea was introduced to North Africa. How can a tea that has always been imported from China be described as native to North Africa? Is the English Tea native to England? M.Bitton (talk) 00:29, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Please, don't ask me questions, wikipedia is not a speculation, follow the source.

We are not speaking about tea, but about mint tea.

You cannot allow to add something with your historian source and forbid me to modification with an other historian source after revert my modification because of not historian source.

Christian Grataloup is a geohistorian

• Christian Grataloup, est professeur émérite à l'Université Paris-Diderot, spécialiste d'histoire globale. Lauréat du Prix Ptolémée 2007, il est récemment l'auteur de l'Atlas historique mondial (2019). Ifni95 (talk) 01:56, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

There's massive difference between our edits. I added a verifiable sentence to the history section that I attributed to a historian. You, on the other hand, are adding your own interpretation of what a sommelier and Christian Grataloup have said to the lead section.

No, we are not speaking about "mint tea", we speaking about the "Maghrebi mint tea" which is indissociable from the gunpowder tea that comes from China. So my previous question are pertinent. What does "Christian Grataloup" say about the gunpowder tea? M.Bitton (talk) 02:31, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Don't ask me questions, I'm not a source, follow the source please. Do you have a source who said mint tea is not native to Morocco ? Ifni95 (talk) 15:16, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Again, the primary topic is "Maghrebi mint tea", i.e., the tea that is indissociable from the gunpowder tea that comes from China. Can you quote from the source the part that describes it as "native to Morocco"? M.Bitton (talk) 15:31, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Mint tea in the Algerian Sahara.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:37, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Bias

Why does "Spread from Morocco" get to stay despite the fact that no sources are given? The history of its origin is complex and little is known about it, some speculate that it originated in Morocco, that is already mentioned in the history section (where it belongs), stating it as a fact in the intro is extremely biased (As is most of the content on this page: photos of mint tea outside of Morocco have been reported and got taken down, the edit war is strong on this one) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slothtysloth (talk • contribs) 21:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

With regard to the image that I removed: it has been nominated for deletion (as copyvio).

You are right about the attributable claim. I have removed it from the into (as it's not a fact) and attributed the claim to its author.

I have also reverted Simohiro's edits (As they clearly misrepresented the source and deleted the sourced part). M.Bitton (talk) 00:32, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Title

Hey @إيان

As you reverted the title change I made without providing a specific reason, I would like to initiate a discussion with you regarding the title and why you believe we should have an exclusive title such as "Maghrebi" which translates to Moroccan mint tea in Arabic. Various sources indicate that mint tea is a popular drink in all Northern African regions. Therefore, I would appreciate it if you could provide clarification and engage in a debate on this matter.

Best regards. Riad Salih (talk) 19:15, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Riad Salih, such a move would require WP:Consensus built through discussion. Per WP:RM#CM, you can request a move by starting a discussion here on this talk page.

Per WP:Requested moves:

To request a single page move, click on the "New section" (or "Add topic") tab of the talk page of the article you want moved, without adding a new subject/header, inserting this code:

:{{subst:requested move|New name|reason=Place here your rationale for the proposed page name change, ideally referring to applicable naming convention policies and guidelines, and providing evidence in support where appropriate. If your reasoning includes search engine results, please prioritize searches limited to reliable sources (e.g. books, news, scholarly papers) over other web results. You don't need to add your signature at the end, as this template will do so automatically.}}
:

Please keep in mind that Wikipedia has a policy of WP:No original research, and you would need to demonstrate that the name you suggest is a WP:Common name in WP:Reliable sources إيان (talk) 19:47, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. The term "Maghrebi mint tea" is not used anywhere in any source, and it is not a neutral name. Therefore, demonstrating this is not difficult. Riad Salih (talk) 19:52, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Moroccan teaware

@M.Bitton: Since my edit got reverted as an advert, I would like to set few things straight: (1) I am OK with the reversal here. The only reason I have added it is due to the fact that I have already written the text for the Tea set and IMHO it was useful here (there are no mentions of tea implements beyond the glasses in the current text. (2) The reason why I wrote the text for Tea set is equally simple: another editor contributed there a similar text using a commercial site as a source. Like you, I do not like commercial element here but, instead of deleting contributions, prefer to replace the links I do not like with normal WP:RS, I rewrote the text in Tea set#Morocco. (3) I do not know anything about Moroccan tea (beyond the facts I learned while writing this text) and am not involved in any way, shape, or form with anything related to this tea. (4) I very definitely do not know the thesis' author, her school, advisors, etc. This is the only source I have found that discusses the Moroccan tea habits in the glorious detail. Викидим (talk) 23:57, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

However, I very much object to your removal of my text in the Tea set, but will discuss it there. Викидим (talk) 00:01, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I replied on the Tea set article talk page. M.Bitton (talk) 00:16, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

George Van Driem

Honestly, I didn't check the author at first before undoing my edit, but George's book on the history of tea is well-researched and worth citing. I later found out he's a professor of Historical Linguistics, a field that intersects history and linguistics. MoroccanTeaEnjoyer (talk) 01:32, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

This isn't just about the reliability of the source, it's also about the fact that most, if not all of what you added is already covered in the article in greater details: for example, "Morocco valued tea over Brazilian coffee" is misleading since coffee was unknown in Morocco, unlike its neighbours (which is the reason why the Moroccan latched onto tea). It's also worth noting that this Chinese green tea (adding mint to it is done in the Middle East too) is consumed in many countries and not just Morocco which is already given UNDUE weight in the article, while the Tuaregs who have done more for its spread in Africa than anyone else are barely mentioned. M.Bitton (talk) 17:04, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, M.Bitton, for your reply. I understand your point now. I too have noticed that some details in my edit were already covered in the article, and some were unrelated. However, George adds further information in his book, mentioning, for instance, that the habit of drinking a hot infusion of fresh mint was reportedly established in Morocco before the introduction of green tea. He points out that during Moulay Ismail's reign (1672-1727), tea existed in Morocco, with the Sultan receiving tea and porcelain cups from the Dutch. As a historical linguist, George explains that the word "it-tai" or "atay" is a Dutch loanword from "thee" (contrary to the common belief that it originated from French). Additionally, he notes that the Moroccan style of drinking tea was already well established in the royal court during the time of William Lempriere (during the reign of Moulay Yazid Ben Mohammed), whose accounts describe the Moroccan tradition of preparing and drinking mint tea at that time. MoroccanTeaEnjoyer (talk) 19:14, 25 January 2024 (UTC)