Talk:Mael (name)

Roycol

Who was it? Asking from Germany - Stephanie Fo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C0:7F25:8817:2DC6:8F24:FD02:11DD (talk) 19:11, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Brezhoneg Needed

This was mostly written by folks who don't know Gaeilge and Brezhoneg.

I tried to fix the bit about Gaeilge as best I could, without going too far into the Gaeilge, such as the many ways of spelling, or Gráinne Mhaol.

But I don't know anything about Brezhoneg. I tried to clear up some confusion of French and Brezhoneg by guesswork, but it really needs to be looked at by a Brezhoneg (?).

Same goes for the Cymraeg! 121.127.212.32 (talk) 09:26, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 5 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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result:
Not moved. See below enough opposition to this proposal to stay with the status quo for now. No prejudice if a fresh RM is opened to see if the suggested title Mael (name) would be appropriate. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone stay healthy! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 01:37, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

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Move logs: source title · target title

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

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• Maël → Mael
• Mael → Mael (disambiguation)

– This article talks about a number of different names, whose only commonality is that they come from Celtic words that at some point have been spelt with the letters "Mael", if you leave out the accents, as the English often do.

Thus the article as it stands can not rightly be spelt with the accents of any one of the names, as it is more of a disambiguation of all the different names that might be confused by English speakers.

Ideally each name would each have their own article with appropriate link, categories, etc. but this would take a considerable amount of work by someone well versed in all concerned languages. However that approach itself could cause problems if English speakers use the name "Mael" under the impression that it comes from various Celtic languages.

Thus the easiest fix is to rename the page "Mael", removing all accents/diacritics. 121.127.212.32 (talk) 10:14, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Note: pages with content, such as Mael, are ineligible to be new titles in move requests unless they, too, are proposed to be renamed. Mael → Mael (disambiguation) has been added to this request to meet that need. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 03:57, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Thankyou for your help with the ways of Wikipedia. 121.127.212.32 (talk) 13:05, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Mael (name). Maël can become a redirect to the main dabpage Mael. 162 etc. (talk) 17:37, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

  It has been changed since your suggestion. Will you now support it? Thanks, 121.127.212.32 (talk) 13:20, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

  No, there is no primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 16:22, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose as proposed. This is a malformed request since the main title header Mael is in use. Would support, however, Maël → Mael (name) per 162 etc. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 18:18, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

  It has been changed since your opposition. Will you now support it? Thanks, 121.127.212.32 (talk) 13:07, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I must oppose Mael → Mael (disambiguation) per 162 etc. since the six-sentence stub for Maël does not rise to the level of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, As for my support regarding the alternative option Maël → Mael (name), it still stands. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:17, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

• I don't quite understand why you'd want to do this since the search for e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=intitle%3AMael+born&title=Special:Search seems to show a lot of given names with those diacritics, and only some without them. --Joy (talk) 08:16, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

  "Máel" seems just as common as "Maël". 162 etc. (talk) 22:52, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

  My point wasn't that "Mael" without the dots is more common; my point was that this article talks about different names, whose only thing in common is their spelling without dots. The dots then are wrong for a part of the article. And given that the names are already confused by folks who don't know the languages, I don't think this can be rightly fixed by putting the names into different articles, which would anyway need knowledge I do not have of some of the languages involved. 121.127.212.32 (talk) 13:03, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

That is to say, they have become confused as one name in English, so they can rightly go in one article on English Wikipedia, but it must properly respect that the one English name comes from at least two different Celtic names, without assuming either before the other. 121.127.212.32 (talk) 13:28, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

In any case, your search results could just show French-language Chauvinism. The French state controls and suppresses the Bretons, such as by Frenchifying their names. This can be seen on Wikipedia in the Frenchified spelling of the Breton saint Mael. French Wikipedia users writing about Bretons, or English users going by French sources, are likely to use Frenchified spellings. 121.127.212.32 (talk) 15:12, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

• Is the pronunciation the same for those two? --Joy (talk) 17:37, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

  They sound different, being spoken with the sounds of different languages. 121.127.212.32 (talk) 13:03, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

  Then I'd still say that these should be separate articles. Just because it's possible to casually strip diacritics, that doesn't mean it should be done. If these differences exist in practice and indicate distinct notable topics, the encyclopedia articles should cover them as such. We shouldn't be picking and choosing any spelling arbitrarily. --Joy (talk) 19:41, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

• I support Paine's fix, that is first moving Mael to Mael (disambiguation). 121.127.212.32 (talk) 13:33, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The name is French and uses the various accent marks and diacritics. Mael can be a redirect to the article. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 16:46, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 15 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. As stated by Joy, we could consider moving the information about the name Máel to Máel ‍ ‍ Helloheart ‍ ‍ 21:27, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

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Maël → Mael (name) – This article covers the Irish name Máel as well as the French name Maël. There is no reason to prefer one accent over the other, and the accented letter is insufficient disambiguation. It's also unlikely that this article is a primary topic, so Maël can become a primary redirect to the dabpage Mael. See related RM above. 162 etc. (talk) 16:42, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:17, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
• Guys, can we do a modicum of due dilligence? We talked about this just recently in the section above. Mael already doesn't redirect here, so nothing is being preferred. Instead, that title is fully disambiguated already, while Máel doesn't exist. Move the Máel content to that title, and leave this one here, and there is nothing to do. WP:SMALLDETAILS says the different accents are sufficient disambiguation. Speedy close this because we're rehashing wrong options for no clear reason. --Joy (talk) 11:55, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
• Support as above. As for User:Joy's argument, even on separating the Gaelig name (which is a bad idea I think, unless done by someone with good Gaelig and Brezhoneg), there would still be the Brezhoneg name (of which the French is merely a foreign rendering), which is spelt without even one accent. (One of many questions a separation might bring up is, should the Gaeilge be Máel or Maol, and then what of Mál? which is the same name as Brezhoneg Mael. What is ever confused in Irish? I don't know. If Maol is somewhat from Mál... separating them would make more trouble... you see? you need some knowledge of the names. Knowledge probably none of us have.) 121.127.212.32 (talk) 15:31, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nomination, Ortizesp, 121.127.212.32 and on the basis of having written six days ago, at the previous discussion, above, "As for my support regarding the alternative option Maël → Mael (name), it still stands." —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 19:10, 16 February 2023 (UTC)