Talk:Lord John Grey (Tudor nobleman)

Attempts to improve the article

If Lord John Grey of Pirgo deserve an article then he deserves a properly formatted one. I would like to know why edits to bring this article in line with WP:LEAD and WP:EDITORIAL are considered "malicious" and are reverted. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 14:14, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Children

Richardson states John Grey and Mary Browne had one son and three surviving daughters:

• Henry Grey, 1st Baron Grey of Groby who, based at Pirgo, re-established the family presence at court and in Leicestershire.
• Margaret Grey, wife of Sir Henry Capell.
  
• Frances Grey, wife of Sir William Cooke of Highnam Gloucestershire, son of Sir Anthony Cooke of Gidea Hall near Pirgo.
  
• Jane Elizabeth Grey, married Sir Edward Greville of Harold Park.
  

What exactly is correct here because you then have other sources like The History of Parliament stating that Margaret married Sir Arthur Capell while her mother re-married Sir Henry Capell.

You'd better approach the most recent editor about that, its SamBlob as above. Myself I think Douglas is very very good but he is not perfect. Eddaido (talk) 03:43, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 22 April 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved all, but not to the originally nominated titles. I've moved Lord John Grey of Pirgo to Lord John Grey (Tudor nobleman), I'ved moved Lord John Grey to Lord John Grey (fictional character) and finally I've redirected Lord John Grey to John Grey. All these moves are supported by consensus. Anarchyte (work | talk) 10:37, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

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• Lord John Grey of Pirgo → Lord John Grey
• Lord John Grey → Lord John Grey (fictional character)

– WP:COMMONNAME for the historical figure, as used by his entry in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (which only mentions "Pyrgo" once). As a historical figure, he should also be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, so the article on the fictional character also needs moving. Opera hat (talk) 09:31, 22 April 2016 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 09:14, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree, but it should be merely Lord John Grey (character).— TAnthony^Talk 14:28, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Concur likewise - Lord John Grey, the real-life Tudor figure should take precedence over the fictional character. L'honorable (talk) 11:38, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
PS. to add to the confusion, Pyrgo & Pirgo are interchangeable spellings of where Lord John Grey was seated, but in any event howsoever Pirgo/Pyrgo is spelled he has always been known as Lord John Grey.
PPS. let's correct this ASAP. Many thanks L'honorable (talk) 05:04, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose Instead use John Grey, Lord of Pirgo , move the fictional character, and redirect "Lord John Grey" to John Grey, where several lords are listed, so it's not just this one. -- 70.51.46.195 (talk) 06:10, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Comment: John Grey, Lord of Pirgo is utterly incorrect. At no stage was he ever "Lord of Pirgo", nor was he "Lord John Grey of Pirgo" for that matter.. L'honorable (talk) 07:02, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
    PS. is this discussion going to be conducted sensibly?
    • Your statement of "sensibility" seems to mean that we should just close this discussion and leave it as is. Whatever happens, the historical person cannot move to "Lord John Grey", and that should always point to the disambiguation page John Grey, since there have been many lords named John Grey. This article indicates he was the manorial lord of Pirgo, so we can use John Grey, Seigneur of Pirgo or John Grey (died 1564) , and the fictional character moves to John Grey (character) -- 70.51.200.96 (talk) 07:08, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
      • I presume the latest submission above was directed at me, whoever you are? Furthermore I could not agree more with this article being tagged as Start-Class on the project's quality scale. Until something so simple as getting the article's title agreed how can it be possible to move forward? Whoever you are, should you wish to have the low-down on manorial lordships this can be done elsewhere (& sensibility does not come into it but sense does!), in which case please declare yourself and I shall explain in as much detail as you require. Meantime let's stick to the point in hand, namely Lord John Grey. L'honorable (talk) 20:29, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
        PS. please don't make a mockery of Wikipedia because, as grandfather and onetime Royal Guardian of Lady Jane Grey, he played a far more important role in English history than many others who appear on Wiki's pages. Please resolve ASAP.

Although there have been other John Greys who were lords, the form "Lord John Grey" can only refer to the son of a marquess or duke. There is only one other Lord John Grey in history (the fifth son of Thomas Grey, 1st Marquess of Dorset, so this Lord John's uncle) but he is unlikely to be notable enough to have an article. The proposed title is not ambiguous, other than with the fictional character. Opera hat (talk) 10:57, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

• Support Lord John Grey (character), redirecting Lord John Grey to John Grey and moving this page to Lord John Grey (Tudor nobleman) or similar. It cannot remain at this title because it is not recognizable and neither is the alternative John Grey (died 1564), since dying in 1564 is not something he's famous for and so using that as a disambiguator does not allow for easy navigation. DrKay (talk) 17:17, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.