Talk:Little Bo-Peep

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Latest comment: 11 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

An interesting one! I live in Brighton, Sussex, England and it is KNOWN around here what the origins of this rhsdfyme are (especially if you travel further East to Hastings and talk to the fisherman0, but I'm damned if I can find any VERIFICATION to put it in the main article. About a year ago it was on the Hastings tourist site but it's gone!

Little Bo-Peep isn't a tale about a shepherdess at all, it's about Sussex smugglers and is set in St. Leonards (just west of Hastings). The Bo Peep public house was a popular watering hole for smugglers in the 18th and 19th centuries (the pub is still there and still has the same name), the nearby Martello Tower, nicknamed Bo Peep was used by the customs men (Update: Found an 1874 newspaper article [from the "St Leonards and Hastings News" http://www.movable-type.co.uk/veness/hicks/hicksInventions.pdf page 11] naming tower 39 as Bopeep). (There is also now a Bo Peep railway junction nearby, presumable named after the pub or tower).

Little Bo Peep refers to the customs men, the sheep are the smugglers themselves and the tails are the contraband. When they new the customs men were onto them, the smugglers often abandoned the contraband, knowing this makes the extra verses make a lot more sense than if they were really about sheep.

If I can ever find any verification for this I'll add it to the main article, in the meantime, if anyone else can find any verification, feel free to do it yourself!

Jason [[[User:Fork me|Fork me]] 14:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)]

I can recall seeing something simmilar mentioned by the Sumggling Museum in Polperro,Cornwall.62.56.50.25 23:18, 18 October 2007 (UTC)Reply

Moved the following from the "Origins" section because it had no citation for its info... "Older inhabitants of Ninfield, East Sussex (a former smuggling center) will tell you that Bo-Peep was its most famous resident. The story goes that her sheep were walked across the shore to disguise smuggler's footprints. The valley to the south of the A269 in Ninfield joins the Pevensey Level marsh area and was small-boat navigable until the Late Middle Ages." --Gunnora (talk) 19:29, 2 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

Contradictions edit

The history section opens by mentioning the rhyme's alleged origins in the Great Depression, while the image posted is from 1901, predating the Great Depression by thirty years. Is there a notable source for the statement to validate it not being edited out?

I think the actual existance of the bookmark shown proves conclusively that it predates the depression so I have editied it out. I hadn't even noticed this one! Fork me 14:36, 29 September 2006 (UTC)Reply

Lost Tails edit

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

>>"...knowing this makes the extra verses make a lot more sense than if they were really about sheep." I disagree. I think those extra verses make a LOT of sense in light of medieval sheep-herding practices. It's about the painful practice of "docking", i.e. tail amputation. The way I first heard the rhyme was, "leaving their tails behind them", not "leading". I admit that's not great evidence, but it's true that the tails of sheep are customarily cut off at an early age. The severed tails were once hung up and dried to be used as dusting tools. ...Much as alot of folks would like this to be an interesting allegory that refers to smugglers, and a martello called "Bo Peep" that they happen to live near, I'm afraid there is exactly as much evidence that the rhyme names the tower as there is, the tower and town were nick-named after the rhyme. The rhyme is probably alot older. I'm afraid Little Bo Peep is just about cutting tails off sheep, and Little Boy Blue is just about the medieval job of the local hayward, a guy whose job it was to blow a horn and impound cattle. There's no great secret meaning to horn, haystack or the wearing of the color blue, either. (Talzhemir (talk) 11:07, 23 June 2008 (UTC)).Reply

Incidentally, as of January 1, 2008, docking tails of sheep was banned in the Netherlands. They ruled there was insufficient evidence that it leads to disease or attracts more flies. In England, a sheep's tail may be docked so long as it still covers a ewe's vulva or a ram's anus. Rather than cutting and cauterizing, the "banding" method may be used nowadays. It's simply a tight rubber ring that causes the tail to wither and fall off, bloodlessly, and without need for cauterization.

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