Talk:List of primary destinations on the United Kingdom road network

Redhill?

Is Redhill a Primary Destination? I would think it is to close to Reigate and so i have removed it from the list. please correct me if I am wrong. FM [ talk to me | show contributions ]  08:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is. It appears in the LTN 1/94 (the central government list of primary destination), which as far as I have found is the only official documentation. RTW and Uckfield are not, although they may appear on maps as such. They may well be primary destinations by virtue of another factor, but until a citation can be provided to substantiate it per wp:v, then they should not be included.  — MapsMan [ talk | cont ] — 13:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Dorset

Not sure about Wimborne... my road atlas doesn't show it as such. Signs on the A31 are signed Dorchester/Ringwood, but older ones do say Wimborne.

Portland definitely is though, despite not really being a town. 212.137.63.86 (talk) 12:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Road atlases do not always confer with the DfT guidance; unless, of course, some other reference was used published after LTN 1/94.  — MapsMan [ talk | cont ] — 19:17, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Scotland

Can Scotland be broken down into regions as has happened for England and Wales? Also, the introduction to the article describes Crianlarich and Scotch Corner as towns - they are villages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.12.7.4 (talk) 08:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

It actually said "small towns" but if you want to debate semantics...

The national/regional subdivisions are as per the original Government document, which did not include any counties/regions in Scotland; this is probably because the DfT doesn't cover Scotland, so they may have lifted a pre-existing Scottish Office guidance. I have deliberately retained the original counties/regions from the referenced source to avoid any debates over whether historic counties or any other division should be used. I hope that clears that up. — MapsMan [ talk | cont ] — 19:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Map references

Are there official OS map references for primary destinations? Or do, say, large urban areas and dispersed rural villages lack precise location? Laurel Bush (talk) 10:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC).

No, the reference document only lists places, or like "Teeside", areas.  — MapsMan [ talk | cont ] — 22:00, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Locations could be almost anywhere?
The official list might be practically meaningless?
Laurel Bush (talk) 17:36, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Humberside

Why is Humberside listed, when it hasn't existed for over a decade. It should be split into East Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.61.68 (talk) 23:26, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

As stated in the article's footnotes, the county structure is as at 1994, the date the list of destinations was published. This is to make it easier to compare destinations to the published source.  — MapsMan [ talk | cont ] — 21:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Updated list

An updated Primary Destination list has been published. [1]

Regards, FM [ talk to me | show contributions ]  20:22, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

This list is now organised by region, instead of redundant local government divisions: the whole article needs to be reorganised. 195.200.159.2 (talk) 08:01, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

This has been done, apart form Northern Ireland. Does anybody know where there is a list, or should the information be gleaned from a reputable atlas (and noted as such). Martinvl (talk) 12:45, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Northern Ireland list

The Northern Ireland list has been removed by User:82.26.72.129‎ on the grounds that http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php? (and implicitly the Sabre website more generally) is not a reliable source.

Recent DfT documents for England allude to devolved responsibility for determining primary destinations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, so presumably there exists an official list of primary destinations in Northern Ireland (possibly including cross-border destinations such as Dublin), maintained by the Northern Ireland Executive.

An official NI list does not seem to have been published online, though it would presumably be available under Freedom of Information.

A 2004 NI Roads Service publication provides "indicative" maps of the Northern Ireland primary route network and of NI classified roads (Appendix 3 on page 42 and Appendix 4 on page 43 respectively). These maps include labels for major towns outside Belfast, which might or might not correspond to non-Belfast NI primary destinations. The labels on these official road maps compare with the deleted Wikipedia article text as follows:

[Table re-edited to also include a column for highlighted places on ViaMichelin]

Destination	Original wiki list	NI Roads Service maps	ViaMichelin
Annalong		Appendixes 3 and 4
Antrim	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Armagh	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Ballycastle	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4
Ballymena	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Banbridge		Appendixes 3 and 4
Bangor	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Belfast	wiki		ViaMichelin
Belfast City Airport	wiki
Belfast International Airport	wiki		ViaMichelin (as "Belfast Airport")
Broughshane		Appendixes 3 and 4
Carrickfergus	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Castlewellan		Appendixes 3 and 4
Coleraine	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Comber	wiki	Appendix 3 only
Cookstown	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Craigavon	wiki	Appendix 3 only	ViaMichelin
Crossmaglen		Appendixes 3 and 4
Downpatrick	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Dungannon	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Dungiven		Appendixes 3 and 4
Enniskillen	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Larne	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Limavady		Appendixes 3 and 4
Lisburn	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Londonderry	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin (as "Londonderry/Derry")
Lurgan		Appendix 4 only
Maghera		Appendixes 3 and 4
Magherafelt		Appendixes 3 and 4
Maguiresbridge		Appendixes 3 and 4
Moneymore		Appendixes 3 and 4
Newcastle	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Newry	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Newtownards	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Newtownbutler		Appendixes 3 and 4
Newtownstewart		Appendixes 3 and 4
Omagh	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Portadown		Appendixes 3 and 4
Portrush		Appendixes 3 and 4
Sion Mills		Appendixes 3 and 4
Strabane	wiki	Appendixes 3 and 4	ViaMichelin
Toome		Appendixes 3 and 4
Warrenpoint	wiki		ViaMichelin

The maps do not state whether the labels are intended to indicate primary destinations but clearly the deleted article text and the map labels are sufficiently different to leave doubt as to which NI places are official primary destinations.

— Richardguk (talk) 01:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The list should be re-instated, possibly with a note that SABRE is not neccessarily a reliable source. Perhaps the editor concerned should update the list to indicate soures that he has found rather than to just delete sections wholesale. The image should be reinstated regardless of the rest of the section. Martinvl (talk) 07:40, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

May I suggesat that you visit www.michelin.com, and zoom into Northernm Ireland. The map there shows primary destinations and is probably authoritative. This is far better thna just deleting information that is probably 90% correct. Martinvl (talk) 12:59, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

I have added a column in the table above to show which places in NI are highlighted in green at ViaMichelin (at zoom levels 6 and 7, where 1 is the most detailed zoom). Since no places in the Republic of Ireland are shown with similar highlighting, and since primary destinations are a well-established concept in France (home of Michelin), it seems reasonable to conclude that the the highlighting is intended to indicate official primary destinations. Belfast International Airport is only shown at zoom level 6, and is labelled as "Belfast Airport". The omission of a green label for Belfast City Airport might be because it overlaps with Belfast itself, or because the Michelin map is out of date, or because it has not yet been made an official primary destination (note that Birmingham Airport, East Midlands Airport and Luton Airport were only added to the official English list in December 2011).

On that basis, I propose that we reinstate the NI list, but listing just the places highlighted at ViaMichelin (and therefore excluding Ballycastle, Belfast City Airport and Comber which were previously listed in the article).

— Richardguk (talk) 14:53, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

If you nose arounf the map you will find a link that explains the notations - it has words to the effect that the town names with green boundaries are signposted on green signs - and primary locations are signposted on green signs. I therefore agree that the list can be re-instated, but wioth a reference to the Michelin map. Martinvl (talk) 15:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah, missed that, well spotted! Have now also added a link to the key. — Richardguk (talk) 21:16, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

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Boston

Is there a reason why Boston is listed under Leicestershire, rather than Lincolnshire? Red Jay (talk) 15:18, 30 September 2023 (UTC)